21 comments

  • tonypapousek 10 hours ago
  • dabinat 7 hours ago
    I feel like the difference between Steve Jobs’ and Tim Cook’s leadership styles is that Cook is really good at optimizing existing processes, but does not have the vision to capitalize on what’s next.

    Apple got into the smartphone game at the right time with a lot of new ideas. But whatever the next big shift in technology is, they will be left behind. I don’t know if that is AI, but it’s clear that in AI they are already far behind other companies.

    • nilkn 6 hours ago
      Just my opinion:

      Apple doesn't need to solve AI. It's not core to their business in the same way that search engines aren't core to their business.

      What Apple does best lies at the combination of hardware, software, physical materials, and human-computer interface design. This is why they're spending so much more on mixed reality than AI, even knowing that a product like the Vision Pro today isn't going to be a big seller. It's why they're investing in their own silicon. This strategy tends to yield unexpected wins, like the Mac Mini suddenly becoming one of the hottest computers in the world because it turns out it's amazing for sandboxing agents if you don't want to use the cloud, or the Mac Studio becoming arguably the best way to run local AI models (a nascent space that is on the cusp of becoming genuinely relevant), or the MacBook Pro becoming by far the best laptop in the world for productivity in the AI age (and it's not even close).

      Your conclusion is that they're going to be left behind, but the evidence is that they're already well ahead in the areas that are core to their business. They can trivially pay Google a billion a year for Gemini. Nobody else can do what they can in the fusion of hardware, software, and materials as long as they stay focused.

      Where they genuinely slipped up was their marketing -- an unusual mistake for Apple. And that does indeed lie with the CEO.

      • jannyfer 1 hour ago
        > What Apple does best lies at the combination of hardware, software, physical materials, and human-computer interface design.

        This was true maybe a decade ago, but not so now (under the watch of Tim Cook).

        You listed Mac hardware becoming popular in the age of AI as examples of "unexpected wins". Maybe that's true (I don't know if it is) - but Macs were only 8% of Apple's 2025 revenue. Apple has become an iPhone company (50% of revenue) that sells services (26% of revenue).

        And AI can eat away at both. If Siri sucks so hard that people switch away, that would also reduce Services revenue from lost App Store revenue cuts. If Google bundles Gemini with YouTube and Google Photos storage, people might cancel their iCloud subscriptions.

        I think the parent comment was making the point that Tim Cook's Apple has missed the boat and it doesn't show signs that it's going to catch the next wave.

        I have an iPhone 16 and I'm locked in because of all my photos being on my iCloud subscription. But in 2030, if my colleague can use their Pixel phone to record a work meeting, have it diarized, send out minutes, grab relevant info and surface it before the next relevant meeting, and Siri can still only set a timer for 5 minutes, then I might actually switch.

        • vachina 22 minutes ago
          > Siri sucks so hard that people switch away

          I don’t think people choose iPhone for the Siri.

          > my colleague can use their Pixel phone to record a work meeting

          I think lots of startups are tackling this in this space. Hardly a native feature. Attainable an app install away

        • tarsinge 48 minutes ago
          I get your general point but specifically regarding :

          > have it diarized, send out minutes, grab relevant info and surface it before the next relevant meeting

          Slack already has this integrated and it works quite well.

        • tokioyoyo 49 minutes ago
          I’m not sure how to say it without sounding like an Apple fanboy, but Tim Cook has been the CEO for the past 15 years. Every single year people have been whining how “he’s not visionary and etc.”, but at some point you have to give him some credit. Apple of 2026 has completely different landscape versus apple of 2010/earlier. Scaling from millions to billions of sales is incredibly hard, and he’s been able to accomplish it.
      • kace91 3 hours ago
        >They can trivially pay Google a billion a year for Gemini.

        But they can’t vertically integrate the feature, not with acceptable levels of reliability and security.

        That’s the key issue here, an apple AI would be something that can read and interact with your mail, pictures, contacts, location, and so on, but right now giving such access to an LLM would be a ticking timebomb. And those kind of integrated products are probably coming to competitors, even if their security plan is just YOLO.

        • nilkn 3 hours ago
          You're not wrong, but you can also get most (or even nearly all) of that right now today on any device by just getting a Google AI subscription. Gemini already does most of that through its own personal intelligence feature. You do need to use Gmail at minimum for it to be useful, but the vast majority of iPhone users do already.
      • strangeattractr 3 hours ago
        I think this is wrong. Google is a competitor both in devices and in the OS for mobile devices. Apple charge a premium that they justify by superior features, ease of use, effortless integration with other Apple products and so on. I wonder how well they will be able to produce differentiating iOS AI features whilst they use Gemini. I suspect it will more or less have parity with Android devices. If more and more interactions with the device occur through this AI interface I wonder what that does to the perception of Apple products. I suppose they already have the worst AI voice assistant and it hasn't damaged them all that much.
        • snowwrestler 3 hours ago
          Google is not really a competitor to Apple in devices. I mean, they sell devices, but at a way lower volume. The Pixel phone is essentially a tech demo that exists to push their Android partners into making more competitive devices themselves.

          The corporate strategies are not directly comparable. The entire Android project is essentially a loss leader to feed data back into Google’s centralized platform, which makes money on ads and services. Whereas Apple makes money directly from the device sales, supported by decentralized services.

          Apple never produced a differentiated experience in search or social, two of the largest tech industries by revenue. Yet Apple grew dramatically during that time. Siri might never be any better than Google’s own assistant, and it might never matter.

        • nilkn 3 hours ago
          I think you're assuming that no durable or at-scale changes in compute form factor will occur, so that their success pretty much just solely comes down to differentiated iPhone software features. That seems unlikely to me. I don't see phones going away in the next decade like some have predicted, but I do think new compute form factors are going to start proliferating once a certain technological "take off" point is reached.

          The broader point I'm making is that Apple likely couldn't do all the other things they're excelling at right now and compete head-on with Google / OpenAI / Anthropic on frontier AI. Strategically, I think they have more wiggle room on the latter for now than many give them credit for so long as they continue innovating in their core space, and I think those core innovations are yielding synergies with AI that they would've lost out on if they'd pivoted years ago to just training frontier LLMs. There's a very real risk that if they'd poured resources into LLMs too early, they would've ended up liquidating their reserves in a race-to-the-bottom on AI against competitors who specialize in it, while losing their advantages in fundamental devices and compute form factors over time.

    • al_borland 6 hours ago
      I think the issue here is the public promises that were made. Jobs tended not to do that. Things were announced and released when they were ready, which gave them the time to do it right, without any delays.

      Sure, there were things like AirPower and the MobileMe widgets… things that were announced, but never shipped. However, by and large, a big new thing was announced, and a week later it would ship. The iPhone was only announced 6 months early to avoid it being leaked by compliance filing (or maybe it was patents).

      Cook would be wise to go back to this instead of promising the shareholders things he can’t deliver on.

      I think slow playing AI is the right move for Apple. Third party apps give their customers access today, and Apple can take the time to figure out how AI fits into a large cohesive vision for their products and ecosystem… or if it fits at all. Rushing something out doesn’t do anyone any favors, and has never been Apple’s competitive advantage.

      • hackingonempty 4 hours ago
        > The iPhone was only announced 6 months early to avoid it being leaked by compliance filing (or maybe it was patents).

        Is there evidence of this? I think the phone and watch were announced early because Apples vertical integration strategy and quality standards require them to reveal the existence to the rest of the company so they can get everything else working well with the new product category on release. It wouldn't be possible to keep it secret after revealing it internally so they did a simultaneous internal/external reveal to control the message, to maximize impact, to deny rumor sites, etc...

        • tylerchr 3 hours ago
          Yes, or at least that’s the reason Jobs gave in the original Jan 2007 keynote:

          > We’re going to be shipping these in June. We’re announcing it today because with products like this we’ve got to go ahead and get FCC approval which takes a few months, and we thought it would be better if we introduced this rather than ask the FCC to introduce it for us. So here we are.

    • GeekyBear 3 hours ago
      I'd say that after the Apple Maps launch, Tim Cook learned a lesson about allowing features that need additional work the time they need to fully bake.

      Google just launched the Pixel 10 with several promised AI features broken, and could really stand to learn the same lesson.

      https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-10-magic-cue-o...

      https://arstechnica.com/google/2025/09/google-pulls-daily-hu...

      • chaostheory 53 minutes ago
        Not sure of that since Vision Pro needed the M5 to work as promised, instead of the blurry mess that ran on the M2
    • snowwrestler 2 hours ago
      I think comparisons between Jobs and Cook are trite and cliche by now, and also pointless. Jobs was a generational talent; everyone looked up to him when it came to defining products. Of course Cook is not able to do what Jobs did. No one can.

      Apple has already been left behind by many tech shifts: web, search, social, crypto, metaverse, etc. At various times popular opinion had them left behind by netbooks, by tablets, by smart phones, by Windows, by web browsers… until they weren’t.

      Apple does not have to lead all categories of tech to be a very successful company.

    • neya 3 hours ago
      100% agreed. You speak the truth, but already the apologists are writing textbooks justifying Apple's failed strategy :)) and this is why the company thrives. Just blind loyalty to a company that couldn't care less about them.
    • csomar 15 minutes ago
      They have a software issue (I mean who doesn’t) but Cook has tried his hand in lots of products. Some worked like the airpod, airtag and watch; and a particular one flopped: vision. It’s a marvelous tech device that unfortunately had no demand.

      Also the m series can be attributed to him and it’s as good as innovation can get.

    • falkensmaize 5 hours ago
      All I really want from Apple is to continue perfecting their computers, phones and tablets to be the absolute best computing devices possible. As long as they keep iteratively improving those things I don’t care if they’re thought or innovation leaders in whatever hot new thing comes along.
    • profsummergig 2 hours ago
      Steve Jobs had the AI vision. Siri was a (sorta) early AI. And it was acquired under his watch.
    • pjmlp 43 minutes ago
      Apple is in a better situation now than with Gil Amelio, thanks to printing money with iDevices.

      However everything else is quite similar for those of us that were around.

      Except now there isn't a Be or NeXT to acquire, nor the former founder to get back.

    • sampton 7 hours ago
      To be fair no one has solved ai assistant at consumer level yet.
      • 0x4e 6 hours ago
        I agree. It’s still being figured out.

        My prediction is that Apple is the hardware and platform provider (like it’s always been). We’re not asking them to come up with a better social media, or a better Notion or a better Netflix.

        I think their proprietary chips and GPUs are being undervalued.

        My feeling is that they’re letting everyone move fast and break things while trailing behind and making safe bets.

        • coolandsmartrr 22 minutes ago
          Funny you should mention social media in the context of Apple, because they seem to have been attempting that with iTunes Ping[1] and then Apple Music.

          iTunes Ping was a Jobs-era attempt to create a social network for music. It seems that they were trying to rely on integrating with Facebook, who pulled out of the collaboration in the last minute before Ping's release.

          Apple hasn't seem to have given up on social networks for music. Apple Music presents a nascent networking feature where users can see what their friends are listening to.[2] It seems that Apple has learned their lesson from Ping and does not rely on a third-party for a social graph, which is instead powered by iOS contacts.

          While social media is not Apple's bread and butter, they have maintained their interest in having presence in this market. I would assume that this stems from Apple's overall desire to maintain influence over on-the-top services that define the iOS experience. If they let third parties flourish even further, thirds parties gain leverage that they can use during negotiations with Apple. If third parties successfully negotiate for more features that creates parity with apps on non-Apple devices, Apple loses its differentiation on the device markets, thereby losing revenue.

          (I think Stratechery wrote about Apple's service strategy that was motivated by its past relationships with Adobe and Spotify. Couldn't find the link.)

          > We’re not asking them to come up with a better social media, or a better Notion or a better Netflix.

          You're right that we haven't asked them for better on-the-top services. But it seems to be in Apple's interest to compete with third party services providers and make sure they do not supersede Apple in terms of their influence over on-the-top experiences.

          [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes_Ping

          [2] https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iphdf490a9e9/io...

      • flyingzucchini 3 hours ago
        They should start at getting very basic speech recognition working in cars would be a big help.
    • FranklinJabar 3 hours ago
      > it’s clear that in AI they are already far behind other companies.

      I think it's exactly the opposite, actually. They've integrated AI flawlessly into existing products to an extent nobody else has even come close to. Photos, for instance, makes better use of AI than any other photo management app in existence. If anything, ChatGPT/Microsoft/Google/etc are absolutely crippled because they don't have access to the data people actually use on a day to day basis—instead, it's scattered across a million browser apps and private silos.

      And, you don't have to use an asinine chatbot integration looking like a fool to use it.

      Perhaps Google comes the closest to being able to capitalize on this, but I can't say I can remember using any AI integration they have, and I stopped giving them my data over a decade ago.

      • saghm 27 minutes ago
        If you haven't used any of Google's services with your actual data for over a decade, there's a pretty simple explanation about why you don't remember any times you've interacted with one of their AI integrations for those services, and it has nothing do with the relative quality of them.
      • neya 3 hours ago
        "I think it's exactly the opposite, actually. They've integrated AI flawlessly into existing products to an extent nobody else has even come close to. Photos, for instance"

        Have you used a Samsung? Apple's AI miserably fails in every comparison out there in the photos app.

        There's also Google Photos with Gemini which helps you find any photo you want with AI better than anyone else.

        But sure, Apple has the best AI integration

    • chaostheory 4 hours ago
      Right or wrong, at least he takes risks. Apple Vision Pro was launched two years too early, but you can’t say that he just realized on existing products.
    • vineyardmike 7 hours ago
      I feel like, today, most of the other LLM providers can do what "Apple Intelligence" promised - it'll link with my email/calendar/etc and it can find stuff I ask with a fuzzy search.

      That said, I don't really use this functionality all that often, because it didn't really (effortlessly) solve a big need for me. Apple sitting out LLMs means they didn't build this competency along the way, even when the technology is now proven.

      I think the same thing is true was VR - except Apple did invest heavily in it and bring a product to market. Maybe we won't see anything big for a while, and Silicon Valley becomes the next Detroit.

      • FranklinJabar 3 hours ago
        > it'll link with my email/calendar/etc

        Wait, how does that work? I've never heard of this outside of closed ecosystems (iPhone is obviously the best at this, but I guess also google crap if you're invested into gmail/gcal/etc)

      • SoftTalker 3 hours ago
        You mean you don't have an everyday need to find an authentic Italian restaurant and make dinner reservations? Without actually doing it yourself?
    • 2OEH8eoCRo0 7 hours ago
      It's easy: make my life easier.

      Instead they choose to optimize for shareholder value.

  • fartfeatures 8 hours ago
    This was such a self inflicted own goal. Siri has needed work for years and every year they neglected it. When they first bought Siri it was state of the art and then it just languished. Pulling an Intel and sweating your assets until it is too late is never a good idea.
    • azinman2 4 hours ago
      Siri has had many, many, many engineers on it for a while.
      • wronglebowski 4 hours ago
        I don't doubt it, but what were they all doing? The Metaverse had 10k employees on it for multiple years and seemed to almost be a standstill for long periods of time. What do these massive teams do all day?
        • owlbite 3 hours ago
          Have meetings to figure out how to interact with the other 9990 employees. Then try and make the skeleton app left behind by the team of transient engineers who left after 18 months before moving on to their next gig work, before throwing it out and starting again from scratch.
          • sockaddr 7 minutes ago
            Exactly. What Meta accomplished could have been done by a team of less than 40 mediocre engineers. It’s really just not even worth analyzing the failure. I am in complete awe when I think about how bad the execution of this whole thing was. It doesn’t even feel real.
      • Whatarethese 1 hour ago
        I wish I could be assigned a project and make no progress in over a decade and still have a job.
        • siva7 28 minutes ago
          Why would you want to be forgotten?
  • PlunderBunny 3 hours ago
    Given the way current LLMs hallucinate, and given that Apple (presumably) won’t accept this behaviour in Siri, I’m skeptical that existing technology (or existing technology scaled up) can ever create the Siri Apple and its customers want.
    • Jgrubb 3 hours ago
      I'll settle for "gets voice to text right most of the time". Seriously, Apple is so far behind on the cheapest table stakes at this point I highly doubt their high standards is the issue.
      • PlunderBunny 1 hour ago
        Yeah, but isn't the voice recognition (as opposed to voice comprehension) separate from the supposedly LLM powered bit of Siri? I want better voice comprehension too, but I don't think that moving to a LLM powered Siri will solve that.
      • FireBeyond 3 hours ago
        Oh absolutely. The amount of times I have to pause, take a deep breathe and OVER-enunciate (still with mixed success) because my voice, pulse rise and my patience decreases with every absolute butchering (like not even "close but no cigar" but "how on earth did you come up with that?") Siri does to dictated text message in CarPlay...
        • rootusrootus 1 hour ago
          I don’t even bother anymore. When it reads back the text message and asks if I want to send it I just laugh heartily and say yeah. Sometimes the recipient has to read it aloud and try to phonetically guess what the original words were.
    • meroes 1 hour ago
      Literally what's the difference between that and Siri now.

      Siri can't understand or pronounce very well.

      A few weeks ago Siri via Car Play responded to a text and sent it without me saying a word or radio on, and with the setting where it asks first before sending enabled. It responding "Why?" to a serious text was seriously inconvenient in the moment. I watched it happen in disbelief.

      • PlunderBunny 1 hour ago
        (Edit: Didn't see your last paragraph before writing the response below)

        I think there is a distinction between Siri misunderstanding what was said (which you can see/hear), and Siri understanding what you said but hallucinating an answer. In both cases, you strictly have to check the result, but in the first case it's clear that you've been misunderstood.

    • vachina 19 minutes ago
      Yeah. Apple don’t half ass things. This is why people take their products seriously.
    • FireBeyond 3 hours ago
      I don't think that's at all a safe presumption, given that AI still happily hallucinates summaries of text messages/email that is contradictory to that actual content of the message.
      • PlunderBunny 1 hour ago
        Unless I misunderstand your reply, I think we're agreeing.
  • falaki 6 hours ago
    I worked at Siri (post acquisition) 13 years ago as one of the early data scientists. Let's just say I am not a bit surprised.
  • lacker 8 hours ago
    It doesn't surprise me that Siri continues to be bad - Apple's current plan is to use a low-quality LLM to build a top-quality product, which turned out to be impossible.

    What does surprise me is that Google Home is still so bad. They rolled out the new Gemini-based version, but if anything it's even worse than the old one. Same capabilities but more long-winded talking about them. It is still unable to answer basic questions like "what timer did you just cancel".

    • paul7986 1 hour ago
      Indeed especially compared to chatGPT running so much better on my same iPhone where siri shits the bed. Voice transcription sucks in every aspects on my iPhone except surprise chatGPT gets what I am saying 90% of the time.
  • LeoPanthera 8 hours ago
    I'd rather they get it right than released it unfinished.
  • jiggawatts 7 hours ago
    I got myself an iPhone 16 Pro because of the promised AI features. I had a vision in my mind of what it ought be like:

    While driving past a restaurant, I wanted to know if they were open for lunch and if they had gluten-free items on their menu.

    I asked the "new" Siri to check this for me while driving, so I gave it a shot.

    "I did some web searches for you but I can't read it out to you while driving."

    Then what on earth is its purpose if not that!? THAT! That is what it's for! It's meant to be a voice assistant, not a laptop with a web browser!

    I checked while stopped, and it literally just googled "restaurant gluten free menu" and... that's it. Nothing specific about my location. That's nuts.

    Think about what data and access the phone has:

    1. It knows I'm driving -- it is literally plugged into the car's Apple CarPlay port.

    2. It knows where I am because it is doing the navigating.

    3. It can look at the map and see the restaurant and access its metadata such as its online menu.

    4. Any modern LLM can read the text of the web page and summarize it given a prompt like "does this have GF items?"

    5. Text-to-voice has been a thing for a decade now.

    How hard can this be? Siri seems to have 10x more developer effort sunk into refusing to do the things it can already do instead of... I don't know... just doing the thing.

  • karlitooo 3 hours ago
    Seems weird to comment on delayed new features from Apple. Obviously if it doesn't meet the quality bar it would get pushed back, that's just how they do things.

    But I wonder how much of the problem is due to trying to minimise data processing off-device. Even with Open AI as a last resort, I don't imagine you get much value choosing betwixt the local model or a private cloud that doesn't save context.

    Meanwhile the average user is yeeting their PII into Altman's maw without much thought so Siri is always going to seem rubbish by comparison.

  • dboreham 4 minutes ago
    I think we can conclude at this point that the guy yelling at engineers to "just stick ChatGPT into Siri" doesn't understand that the result is unusable, for whatever reason. That reason might be that the UE is bad, or because it grossly violates user privacy, but it might be that Apple would loose $$$$$ because LLM inference is expensive.
  • jdlyga 8 hours ago
    This is obviously a death march project. Just delay it indefinitely until the Google Gemini based Siri chatbot is ready. Why ship something half-assed?
    • lysace 8 hours ago
      The referenced Bloomberg source (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-02-11/apple-s-i...) says this about the delayed effort:

      But it’s been a complex undertaking. The revamped Siri is built on an entirely new architecture dubbed Linwood. Its software will rely on the company’s large language model platform — known as Apple Foundations Models — which is now incorporating technology from Alphabet Inc.’s Google Gemini team.

  • flyingzucchini 3 hours ago
    I just wish they would fix the out of memory disaster on my MacBook that is ios26
  • tiffanyh 9 hours ago
    Do similar issues exist with Gemini on Android?

    Or are these challenges very Siri/iOS specific?

    • shakna 5 hours ago
      Gemini can and does send everything to Google.

      Apple's challenge is they want to maintain privacy, which means doing everything on-device.

      Which is currently slower than the servers that others can bring to the table - because they already grab every piece of data you have.

      • AnonHP 3 hours ago
        > Apple's challenge is they want to maintain privacy, which means doing everything on-device.

        Apple is not trying to do everything on-device, though it prefers this as much as possible. This is why it built Private Cloud Compute (PCC) and as I understand it, it’s within a PCC environment that Google’s Gemini (for Apple’s users) will be hosted as well.

      • ComputerGuru 3 hours ago
        This isn't planned to be exclusively on-device. Siri isn't exclusively on-device now, to begin with.
  • ronnier 8 hours ago
    Is it not impressive what xai did with Grok? It's already integrated into twitter and my Tesla. So quickly? What prevented apple from doing the same but building out their equivalent of grok?
    • nilkn 7 hours ago
      This is not a bad example. Tesla is indeed running a custom LLM, available in their vehicles, capable of acting as a general chatbot and issuing commands to the car, developed in-house. While Grok is not up-to-par with other frontier models, it's certainly far beyond Siri.
    • WatchDog 3 hours ago
      Grok runs on a cloud server, I think Apple are trying to do as much as possible on-device, which makes it a lot harder.
    • dilap 3 hours ago
      Leadership matters!
  • cantalopes 7 hours ago
    Not sure whether it's a language/pronounciation issue but for 15 years since siri was released i have not seen a single person using it successfully without having to yell at it for not waking up or not understanding the request correctly
    • pndy 7 hours ago
      I was cleaning up room today and while wiping dust from bookshelf homepod sits on, siri out of blue goes with "I thought so".

      It'll be 15 years this October and I can't still use siri with my language.

  • isodev 1 hour ago
    > Siri doesn’t always properly process queries or can take too long to handle requests, they said

    I mean, for anyone familiar with LLMs this is not exactly a surprise. There is no way Apple can remove the inherent downsides of this technology regardless of how enthusiastic the ai bros are about it.

    In a twisted way, I’m happy there are at least some teams at Apple where it doesn’t get a pass for bugs just because it has AI on the sticker

  • luxuryballs 8 hours ago
    Are Apple AI agent delays bearish for AI agents in general? Unless something else is the issue it’s normal behavior for Apple not to implement something everyone else already has until it’s very good and solid.
    • sigmar 3 hours ago
      These aren't "agent" features. they're the features announced in 2024, like ai summaries in web search and natural language image editing
    • barbacoa 6 hours ago
      Apple wants to vertically integrate. Their AI strategy until recently was to develop their own LLM models that were small enough to run on device. But massive scaling is what makes LLMs so powerful, so all their internal models were terrible and unusable.

      Basically they bet that compute efficient LLMs were the future. That bet was wrong and the opposite came true.

  • jammcq 10 hours ago
    Damn paywalls! Sorry, I shouldn't be so negative. I'd just like to be able to read the article.
  • louiereederson 9 hours ago
    [flagged]