Scientists claim the universe is twice as old as believed

(geekspin.co)

54 points | by mattm 2 hours ago

13 comments

  • po1nt 1 minute ago
    I've never liked big bang as a concept. It sounds cartoonish for me like heliocentric model. It's way too convenient that entire space evolved from a single point long time ago. It sounds like a child story in comparison to everything else we can prove so far.
  • chrisnight 47 minutes ago
    > while also matching the universe’s historical expansion rate without requiring dark energy.

    I wonder which number this matches, since we’ve repeatedly measured 2 different values and we can’t figure out why they disagree. As much as this is currently non-peer reviewed ideas that probably won’t lead anywhere (as with most news articles about new research), radical ideas like this are probably what is needed to get to the truth of the Hubble tension and other paradoxes in cosmology.

  • mcv 46 minutes ago
    Fascinating idea. It reminds me of an attempt from a few decades ago where scientists recalculated all fundamental constants from fundamental properties instead of the rather arbitrary quantities we're used to. A surprising finding of that project was that all fundamental constants ended up very close to 1, with two big exceptions: and the age of the universe at 10^40 and the gravitational constant at 10^-40, suggestiong an inverse relationship between the two.

    It was probably a coincidence, but now there's another model with changing constants. I'd love to see where this goes.

    • adrian_b 5 minutes ago
      That was most likely some bogus research paper written by people who did not understand what they were computing.

      Even among professional physicists, a surprisingly number of them do not have clear ideas about the meanings of the fundamental constants and of the fundamental units of measurement. The reason is that the subject of metrology, even if it is the fundament of physics, is almost never treated correctly is physics textbooks, if it is mentioned at all.

      Ignoring the extra constants that might be needed in the theory of nuclear strong and weak forces, and also the extra constants that may be needed in certain variants of Einstein's theory of gravitation (e.g. "the cosmological constant"), in the physics that is encountered by the majority of people there are only 2 fundamental constants, which determine the strength of the electromagnetic interaction and the strength of the gravitational interaction, i.e. the constant of Coulomb's law of electric attraction and the Newtonian constant of gravitation.

      None of these 2 constants can be claimed to be particularly close to 1. These 2 constants can be expressed in several equivalent ways, but none of the different values obtained thus has any unexpected values.

      For example, a constant that is equivalent with Coulomb's constant is the so-called "fine structure constant" a.k.a. Sommerfeld's constant, about a huge number of aberrant research papers have been written by people who did not know what it means. The "fine structure constant" is the speed of a particle with unit charge that revolves around a fixed particle with unit charge, when having unit angular momentum (in natural units). That speed is determined by the equality between the electric attraction force and the inertial centrifugal force, so it is a measure for the strength of the electric force and it is inversely proportional with the constant from Coulomb's law.

    • stemchar 22 minutes ago
      > A surprising finding of that project was that all fundamental constants ended up very close to 1

      This does not mean anything, at all.

      • Affric 14 minutes ago
        The part they purport means something follows that. We would expect most constants to be fairly close to 1.
      • halflife 21 minutes ago
        Probably that 1 is a divine number, and all other numbers are inferior.

        Or it’s just humans project meaning into a meaningless universe.

        • stemchar 14 minutes ago
          > Or it’s just humans project meaning into a meaningless universe.

          What else is there to do?

          • halflife 9 minutes ago
            Eat and procreate
    • skew-aberration 28 minutes ago
      • mcv 4 minutes ago
        That's longer ago than I thought, but it sounds like it's the same thing.
    • mock-possum 36 minutes ago
      > all fundamental constants ended up very close to 1

      What could that possibly mean?

      • jiggawatts 26 minutes ago
        Probably a misunderstanding of the concept of normalizing units to '1' so that, for example, the speed of light is is simply unity instead of arbitrary Terran units like 299 792 458 m/s or 186 282 miles/s.

        There's a few ways of doing this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_units

        Alternatively, and more likely, it's based on the "relative" strengths of the different forces, where ratios of about 10^40 do tend to turn up.

        For example, the ratio of electric force versus gravitational attractive forces for a proton and an electron is 2.3 x 10^39 which is close.

        PS: A fun thing to numerological coincidence to consider is that 2^128 is about 3.4 * 10^38, which is weirdly close. It's almost like gravity is "rounding error" on a universe simulator made with 128-bit CPUs. Similarly, 2^256 is close to the Eddington number of ~10^80, which is the estimated number of particles in the Universe...

  • kazinator 1 hour ago
  • bmh100 1 hour ago
    Have there been any peer reviewed papers published into reputable journals?
    • zergrush 30 minutes ago
      thats too slow we are not interested in academic beauracracy
  • zkmon 25 minutes ago
    The past is created by your observation and understanding.
  • eddiewithzato 30 minutes ago
    Another hit to having answer for the fermi paradox, a universe this quiet is something to marvel at
  • hypfer 1 hour ago
    If true, then that's a heavy hit for the big bang theory intro song. I don't think they can just replace the fourteen with a twenty-seven, without the whole flow breaking completely.
    • silentsea90 56 minutes ago
      Good thing nobody watches it any more? Bazinga.
      • moomoo11 18 minutes ago
        my parents watch it and laugh at all the jokes.

        i used to think it was cringe and maybe it is, but many normies love that show and watching it with them when they find it funny is actually endearing.

        • 4ggr0 7 minutes ago
          i could do with the jokes and watching it passively as a timesink, but my genz brain just can't get used to the canned laughs and claps. doesn't even matter which show, it feels soooo weird to see actors freeze for 1-2 seconds after every joke, like non-stop, repeating 4th-wall breaks.
  • kavalg 24 minutes ago
    Oh poor universe. As if she wasn't old enough already :)
  • kleene_op 59 minutes ago
    Every year or so we hear about new studies that double or halve the age of the universe.

    Until we get radically new data, I'll consider the universe ageless. This is the most elegant solution anyway.

    • Octoth0rpe 55 minutes ago
      > Every year or so we hear about new studies that double or halve the age of the universe.

      Not any reputable ones. The consensus on the estimated age of the universe has shifted only slightly in the last several decades.

      • colordrops 4 minutes ago
        There's no way that it hasn't existed for infinity, for the value where universe = literally everything. It can't come from nothing, so it has always existed. I am obviously not aware of the formal definition of universe, considering there are theories of our universe being one of many bubbling in the cosmic foam.
    • Larrikin 37 minutes ago
      This never actually happens.

      Since Hubble launched there's been a near complete consensus on the bounds that were radically reduced down from before. Perhaps you were born in the seventies or earlier? Well before CMB studies and the Hubble telescope launched.

      There's just been a ton of science trying to reconcile the difference in the upper and lower bounds that are far closer than they were before. But it's a few billion years, not doubling or halving.

    • donkey_brains 54 minutes ago
      We also hear that time is an illusion, which renders the whole debate moot anyway.
      • grishka 47 minutes ago
        We know nothing about the true nature of consciousness, and we can't describe time except through our own subjective experience of it. Spacetime might not even be the fundamental layer of the universe, it's just what we all collectively experience through consciousness. So until we figure out what we are, these questions will remain unanswered.
      • treebeard901 35 minutes ago
        In a sense, time is just different fractions of counting the number of times a planet of monkeys goes around the sun. The monkeys then apply this limited concept of time to the entire universe. But then in the grand scheme of things, everything that is now was nothing at one point and presumably will also be nothing again, then the only evidence of time are the monkeys who tried to keep count of how many times they orbited a star. When everything returns to nothingness, time will have been an illusion.
      • joarv0249nw 16 minutes ago
        Isn't time related to the distance between objects eg. space. So if the distance is 0, time does not exist
      • adzm 41 minutes ago
        Time is an illusion but not causality
      • konart 39 minutes ago
        Perception rather than illusion.
    • exe34 41 minutes ago
      Every year or so we hear that super intelligence is around the corner and is also impossible, so I'll ignore LLMs entirely until there's new information.
  • NSUserDefaults 42 minutes ago
    But those hair implants...
  • moomoo11 24 minutes ago
    Big Bong
  • b112 41 minutes ago
    Seeing as the universe existed before time existed, it would seem that the universe is infinitely old.
    • fasterik 35 minutes ago
      What does "old" mean before time exists?
      • b112 28 minutes ago
        Hence the stub in of infinity