At my company, we migrated basically all CI/CD to Github Actions. Also our Gitops processes. I have warned that putting all the eggs in one basket and they key to the fridge in the same basket was a bad idea. People didn't care. So I don't care anymore.
Github seems to have degraded measurably after they got acquired. As is tradition.
> Github seems to have degraded measurably after they got acquired. As is tradition.
I'm not disagreeing with you that it has degraded, however it was acquired almost 8 years ago at this point, and the software world has been turned on it's head in the last... 3?
Software generally degrades post-acquisition, I'm not denying that. Github has definitely degraded. I'm not sure I would agree that the core reason in this case is "the acquisition" and not "AI making software and free-CI-load demand 3-5 orders-of-magnitude higher than it was 3 years ago"
The latest problems correlate pretty closely when they tried to migrate the entire platform onto azure in an insane timeline, something like ~1 year (for a project of that size, that's borderline insane).
These are incredibly complex and massive systems, they do not fail instantly. The failures happen incrementally until they become insurmountable and the system collapse. Incompetence doesn't show its head immediately, it can take quite a while.
Either way, it's clear the acquisition has not helped github in any meaningful way. GitHub is owned by a multi trillion dollar transnational corporation. They have enough money, resources, and human labor to achieve whatever they want, but this is what they want and this is what they've achieved.
I feel sorry for the teams at this point. These kind of incidents at this scare and frequency are bound to create an acrimonious environment where everyone would be looking for scapegoats on the pretext of finding root causes.
Yeah. Enjoy the rest of your day off. Winter's coming, maybe go hit a park for a few hours or play a new video game or something. Or take some time to learn a new skill or something. Not your fault if the company can't provide the tools to do the job, go find something better to do.
(Man, unbelievable the mileage we're getting out of this comic.)
I mean this really seriously. Maybe not a game on your computer, that's unprofessional (unless your TL/manager does it first). But
> Not your fault if the company can't provide the tools to do the job, go find something better to do.
is just Truth. What should I do in this case to best deliver value to the company, fly to SF and hand Github a ringbound volume of my changeset? Patch our corporate network so we can interface to Github via RFC 1149?
Forgejo, and Gitea are decent alternatives if you want to fully move off Github! If you are hoping to move away from only Github Actions, I've been working on a ~drop-in replacement for their control-plane + runner for the past few months. Each each job runs in a cross-platform vm so you can run your ci locally and update your checks. It's still beta, so I certainly wouldnt use it in prod just yet, but it's great if you want to run some of your CI locally. https://github.com/preloopdev/preloop if anyone's curious!
The alternative is, I’m guessing, probably any other hosted git + CI/CD service that doesn’t offer a free tier to zillions of users (human and LLM alike) so that their computing capacity isn’t in a constant arms race with growth.
Claude/codex has made the stickiness much less of a problem. We just say "no new repos in GitHub" and then put agents on refactoring the existing repos for GitLab compatibility.
What makes it sticky? I just don't see it. The declarative Github Actions manifests?
I imagine very few people use the wiki, because it's so subpar.
The issues are a problem, but this is why I always thought issues should be a core part of the Git repo, checked into it, sort of how Fossil does it. And so should the wiki, for that matter.
Agreed. Epiq also does that (a repo native issue tracker). It is persisted as an event graph in your repo in a dedicated branch. I'm it's author for disclosure. Vendor agnostic and works offline
See, my main issue is with Actions. If that breaks, there's little alternative for the more complex flows. Minor infrastructure changes could be done manually through AWS, but complex deployments would have to be replaced. That's a big task even with AI.
The pull request system and related machinery is useful, but Gitlab and the ilk can do the same. Even self-hosted solutions like Gitea. But I don't particularly have a problem with that living in Github. If there's an outage, break glass, force push to main.
The actual Git repository hosting part is trivial. If that breaks, Git is distributed anyways, push and pull to any random remote storage. All you need is SSH. The main headache is that automations would break as they are usually hard-coded to a given origin. That is solvable in a pinch, and we have setup mirrors in the past.
It really depends on your use-case and how much you are tied to them (Github authentication?)
Self-hosted $whatever, managed your way. CI/CD doesn't have to be dog-slow or ever go down when you need it, only when you do your upgrades yourself, as god intended it.
I personally use Forgejo + their built-in Actions stuff (mostly GitHub compatible), have one old Linux desktop as a server which runs Linux + Windows runners, one Mac Mini for macOS/iOS builds, using NixOS so I don't have to remember how things work, and it just keeps running 24/7, always there when I need it.
There's something to be said for the social availability that github brings. I'm far more likely to submit a pr for a bugfix to a project on gh than a random self-host site.
You can do your own ci/cd runner system, but you still rely on webhooks or triggers, when you aren't hosting the code.
> There's something to be said for the social availability that github brings. I'm far more likely to submit a pr for a bugfix to a project on gh than a random self-host site.
Yeah, that used to be the single favorable argument for GitHub, nowadays I think it might be the opposite, at least personally. If the contributor can't be arsed to join the community proper (and maybe get a sign-in code to their email, or whatever login you use), I think I prefer life without their drive-by PRs.
> Github seems to have degraded measurably after they got acquired. As is tradition.
Their explosive growth caused by LLMs seems like it must be a much better indicator than the acquisition. I bet Microsoft are losing a shit ton of money on GitHub right now and seriously questioning the decision to buy them.
There is a screamingly obvious answer here and I don't understand why they aren't taking it -- raise prices, make the free tier less generous. Either slow down the growth or up the revenue pipe so you can throw more compute at it.
Yes. An acknowledgement of the issue should be fine, even if they don’t know why it happened. If a random dev with one PR can see that no jobs are picked up, GitHub should see it as well and add an entry to their status “hey, actions aren’t getting picked up, we are looking into it”. I wasted 20 minutes looking into out actions config looking got an issue, thought maybe we messed something up, but in turned out it was GitHub.
I’m going to hope they can figure things out and improve their uptime. It’s so engrained in my teams workflow at this point, tearing it out and switching to anything else would be extremely disruptive.
I did work for a group using Atlassian bitbucket once, and that had its own problems at the time. I’m still pretty sure even a degraded GitHub beats it. That is to say I don’t know what alternatives for GitHub even are
Their infra is under constant DDoS + they provide a lot of free stuff for open source projects. There's also a constant churn of dependencies, patches, abandoned libraries, etc. We should give them some appreciation, dealing with this stuff is hard.
I wonder if this will ever end (meaning they've solved scaling for AI), and if not, is that due to the problem being unsolvable at this scale or bad decisions on GitHub's part? For example, they always bring up AI as a cause, but it's also apparent the move to Azure didn't help.
I am going to try out Cursor Origin, GitHub is just too much of a bottleneck these days. The only thing that is not readily available is integration with claude code, but with the new claude code mods feature I think it's something I could vibe code quickly.
I know there's a lot of GitHub annoyed people out there but after investigating a lot of the instances of outages it does seems like A) They're abusing ElasticSearch in a way is was never meant to be used B) They've seen an unprecedented increase in scale and now have to provide agent slop a lot of free action minutes until they figure out how to separate commercial support from free support C) Who knows how many other systems were never meant to see this scale there
Still grateful for a lot of the free services and the semblance of community that GitHub still offers. It does seem like it's still the yellowpages of tech.
It would not surprise me if they are going to shift to Plan B sometime soon, because this isn't working. They can't keep provisioning hardware resources in perpetuity to keep up with volume that the AI is pummeling them at. I think most other repo providers have either experienced downtime and/or have locked themselves up to prevent the onslaught.
It is impressive they've been able to keep going, but this is a regular denial-of-service attack at this point, nonstop and relentless.
Github seems to have degraded measurably after they got acquired. As is tradition.
I'm not disagreeing with you that it has degraded, however it was acquired almost 8 years ago at this point, and the software world has been turned on it's head in the last... 3?
Software generally degrades post-acquisition, I'm not denying that. Github has definitely degraded. I'm not sure I would agree that the core reason in this case is "the acquisition" and not "AI making software and free-CI-load demand 3-5 orders-of-magnitude higher than it was 3 years ago"
Either way, it's clear the acquisition has not helped github in any meaningful way. GitHub is owned by a multi trillion dollar transnational corporation. They have enough money, resources, and human labor to achieve whatever they want, but this is what they want and this is what they've achieved.
I guess I can embrace the corporate way, repackage the old solution with a few improvements as something brand new, and pitch to execs.
Yeah. Enjoy the rest of your day off. Winter's coming, maybe go hit a park for a few hours or play a new video game or something. Or take some time to learn a new skill or something. Not your fault if the company can't provide the tools to do the job, go find something better to do.
(Man, unbelievable the mileage we're getting out of this comic.)
I mean this really seriously. Maybe not a game on your computer, that's unprofessional (unless your TL/manager does it first). But
> Not your fault if the company can't provide the tools to do the job, go find something better to do.
is just Truth. What should I do in this case to best deliver value to the company, fly to SF and hand Github a ringbound volume of my changeset? Patch our corporate network so we can interface to Github via RFC 1149?
More "professional" ideas:
- read a book; a novel or TAOCP for nerdmaxxing
- play a game on your phone
- learn to draw. Draw hands!
I imagine very few people use the wiki, because it's so subpar.
The issues are a problem, but this is why I always thought issues should be a core part of the Git repo, checked into it, sort of how Fossil does it. And so should the wiki, for that matter.
The pull request system and related machinery is useful, but Gitlab and the ilk can do the same. Even self-hosted solutions like Gitea. But I don't particularly have a problem with that living in Github. If there's an outage, break glass, force push to main.
The actual Git repository hosting part is trivial. If that breaks, Git is distributed anyways, push and pull to any random remote storage. All you need is SSH. The main headache is that automations would break as they are usually hard-coded to a given origin. That is solvable in a pinch, and we have setup mirrors in the past.
It really depends on your use-case and how much you are tied to them (Github authentication?)
I personally use Forgejo + their built-in Actions stuff (mostly GitHub compatible), have one old Linux desktop as a server which runs Linux + Windows runners, one Mac Mini for macOS/iOS builds, using NixOS so I don't have to remember how things work, and it just keeps running 24/7, always there when I need it.
You can do your own ci/cd runner system, but you still rely on webhooks or triggers, when you aren't hosting the code.
Yeah, that used to be the single favorable argument for GitHub, nowadays I think it might be the opposite, at least personally. If the contributor can't be arsed to join the community proper (and maybe get a sign-in code to their email, or whatever login you use), I think I prefer life without their drive-by PRs.
Their explosive growth caused by LLMs seems like it must be a much better indicator than the acquisition. I bet Microsoft are losing a shit ton of money on GitHub right now and seriously questioning the decision to buy them.
This old chestnut.
Raising prices risks churn, reducing free tier risks lowering customer acquisition rate.
Or do you mean you want to see: "Something is wrong, we're looking into it."
I'm assuming it's something to do with the USA users getting their first work in?
I did work for a group using Atlassian bitbucket once, and that had its own problems at the time. I’m still pretty sure even a degraded GitHub beats it. That is to say I don’t know what alternatives for GitHub even are
Outages only come from our infra.
Migrating means migrating your ci workflows, but a decent llm can do that easily.
Still grateful for a lot of the free services and the semblance of community that GitHub still offers. It does seem like it's still the yellowpages of tech.
It is impressive they've been able to keep going, but this is a regular denial-of-service attack at this point, nonstop and relentless.
For example, GitHub can reduce/eliminate free GitHub Action minutes.
Or just cap concurrent jobs for free users from 20 to 2 or 1… lots of levers, their inaction is sad to see.
GitHub also has more traffic, compare to GitLab
There’s no CEO of GitHub to contact and Microsoft does not care as Copilot, and Tay continue to wreck the platform as the incidents continue.
No better time to self-host, since as this point your self hosted setup would be far most stable than GitHub as predicted 6 years ago. [1]
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50057012
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22868406