I have been using Sites a few months now, really underrated feature IMO. Any time I get a quick app idea I just hand it off to Sites and usually get a working prototype within the hour.
I think this has always been the end result - when the user can enter a business problem and it spins up a site, and they don't have to think about the hosting, database, app, etc.
I mean, with a Cloudflare API key you can pretty much already do that. But keeping your data straight and putting in the right authentication guards, etc. are all still where the business problems meet technical and the AI is not enough unless the agent is both architect and customer.
My guess is Google and Apple are going to eventually take all the market share for this "app builder" category. They own the device market-share and can offer way better integration
For whatever reason most of the sites are Arabic-language prototypes for things like plumbing companies. I'm not sure why - if those are solving a real problem, or whether someone is running a scam, or what.
Gonna wager good money they attempt to relaunch Apps or something of the sort, where you build, launch, host within ChatGpt, seamlessly making it easier really soon.
I'm genuinely sad that what we learned with hard work and sweat, our craft, our identity, our soul; is now something you can buy. I've been in this profession for a long time and now I see people who have absolutely no fucking clue, but lots of money, and they buy all these agents and make things that work (way more broken, with absolutely shit quality), but they work and so they brag about their creations to me all day long, and man that makes me feel like a total loser.
I spent decades trying to master media theory, language design, computer graphics, compiler design, rewriting systems, mathematics, logic, build systems, graphs, data-flow systems, making GUI kits, layout systems, ... all to make a better system for thinking, and now the whole idea of thinking is outsourced (as altman says "sold as utility by the meter"). I need to become an addict or something and be wasted. This is not a life.
Are we looking at the same website? My eyes immediately go to the font and typeface styling and it registers immediately as AI generated. There’s a very distinct “AI” website aura that Claude and ChatGPT make that requires you to change a ton of the styling to make go away.
We’ve been building something like this, but perhaps even more powerful, safe, and beginner friendly. If Sites looks like it’s the right speed for you, we’d love your feedback on https://vibes.diy/
Does anyone know if Claude makes it easy to publish sites u vibe coded to a custom subdomain or new domain? That’s the biggest reason I use this feature in ChatGPT over Claude
Unfortunately right now most AI models get into the weeds of asking the user to sign up to netlify or firebase or buying a domain etc - none of which most users are interested in doing.
If you're wondering why OpenAI's models seem to be struggling to stay ahead of Anthropic and are falling further behind, I think it's because of side quests like this.
They have dots, they had Sora, so many other things that take away attention from just having the best model. There are already a bazillion ways to do this. Sure, the integration's nice, but it's just not needed.
I think at this point assessments like this are more qualitative than quantitative. I use Codex far more than I use Claude for coding and my results are generally higher quality. I would not, however, go to someone and tell them that Codex is better than Claude generally. In large part it depends on how you use the model and the harness.
Weird to describe something they could really easily sell to non-coders as a side quest.
I think programmers make the mistake of thinking generative AI is for us, when it is much more ominously about us.
Newsflash: a company that plans to be the most valuable business on earth and has a desperate need for revenue is not going to stay out of anyone’s lane. If you can make an AI wrapper, so can they.
This actually looks like it has meaningful potential, and given how easily they could train it to connect to a whole bunch of off the shelf APIs running in data centres they control, looks like the next generation of the threat to the tech industry.
A little glimpse of the kind of power the industry has gleefully handed to the crypto-for-your-eyeball-scans guy.
Cloud AI has been the face-eating leopard of the tech industry for the last three years. This is them just starting to chew. How long before they tweak it to build intranet apps?
Stuff like this is most of the industry. Why wouldn’t a firm that has so much influence over data centre rollout, RAM and processor prices simply directly start using their code generation tools and data centres to build and run the work product?
Maybe some of the big firms who have been helping train ChatGPT to destroy them will now wake up to the need for open weights.
All of these "side quests" (and especially this one) are attempts to build a walled-garden.
Especially this. OpenAI will host it. OpenAI will throw "Sign in with ChatGPT" there. "Apps" will be built that depend on end users ChatGPT "connections". The app will fundamentally not work without an end-user having a ChatGPT account/subscription and "connected apps".
Having "the best model" will absolutely not support a $1T+ valuation. Owning the activity of 25-50% of internet users (assuming a split between OAI/Anthropic/Google/maybe-Meta), is.
It's worth for the token budget. You can do so much with gpt-6.1-sol (high) on a small sub. If the money is not aan issue it's probably still worth it for Astra because it can occasionally be smarter than Fable 5.1 (or so I heard).
Could you just be an API to serve intelligence instead of moving into the app layer and putting your clients out of business. How much wealth and power do you need to accumulate seriously?
The "intelligence API" layer seems like a pretty rough business to be in. The smarter the models the more they're commodities (since they can use any harness or scaffolding) resulting in a race to the bottom on pricing. And then each new better model requires double the cost of the previous one.
I'm surprised there's not a bigger push into better and useful memory, since that would result in actual lock-in.
The question of them moving into the app layer is completely irrelevant. If you are threatened by this the reality you need to begin making peace with is that your business is not going to exist within 10 years. And that's being extremely generous.
This was always the play…
Wait until the models are trained to work on “capsules of your data” stored by OpenAI, and deploy your apps/services onto OpenAI cloud where you can _easily_ share the development with your team members’ AI agents. Ofcourse, they will all work only if you use and pay for their models via their subscriptions. A new global {K-V, Relational, Vector} database that your coding model is already trained to work with! will come very soon…
They know the API price wars are a race to the bottom with little/no profit margins.
I think this is going to back fire. I have talked to 5 tech leaders at companies and universities this week about setting up their own infrastructure for inference and training. They are worried about multiple rug pulls: increasing cost of tokens, stealing ideas, training on data etc. they are all willing to uses less intelligence models if they avoid these issues. They’ve seen me setting up propelcompute.com for my start up and propelcode.app neither of which are intended to be commercial products and want to do the same.
Don't worry, we had DreamWeaver, Wordpress and other tools for a long time now but it still did not replace web developers. Build quality tailor made websites that connect to humans and you will be fine.
DreamWeaver and WordPress both had limits on the complexity of site they could build. If you wanted more than what they can do, you look to web developers.
For example, here's a game where you are a mouse hunting for cheese in higher dimensional mazes: https://manifold-six-axis-escape.nathan338932.chatgpt.site/
Idea came to me while at a concert, was ready to play that same night.
Vibe coding full circle
And it will be good enough for 90% of use cases.
It is likely better in some ways and worse in others...and few of hte people involved will have the understanding to tell the difference.
Wonder what domain they're going to pick next. I feel like many LLM-dependent businesses are going to get sherlocked by OpenAI and Anthropic.
For whatever reason most of the sites are Arabic-language prototypes for things like plumbing companies. I'm not sure why - if those are solving a real problem, or whether someone is running a scam, or what.
I got tired of spinning up repos for basic pages, so made my own host last year - https://pageplane.app.
I think the SEO/AEO agencies are using them to seed content for clients.
Then the app economy gets going within ChatGPT
I'm genuinely sad that what we learned with hard work and sweat, our craft, our identity, our soul; is now something you can buy. I've been in this profession for a long time and now I see people who have absolutely no fucking clue, but lots of money, and they buy all these agents and make things that work (way more broken, with absolutely shit quality), but they work and so they brag about their creations to me all day long, and man that makes me feel like a total loser.
I spent decades trying to master media theory, language design, computer graphics, compiler design, rewriting systems, mathematics, logic, build systems, graphs, data-flow systems, making GUI kits, layout systems, ... all to make a better system for thinking, and now the whole idea of thinking is outsourced (as altman says "sold as utility by the meter"). I need to become an addict or something and be wasted. This is not a life.
Are we looking at the same website? My eyes immediately go to the font and typeface styling and it registers immediately as AI generated. There’s a very distinct “AI” website aura that Claude and ChatGPT make that requires you to change a ton of the styling to make go away.
I know that Vercel or something similar is quite close to that, but it's not that well integrated into MCP/Skills.
If you ask something like "please make a little website for me and my friends to plan our shopping lists on", I would expect the result to be:
"Here you go: https://shopping-lister.chatgpt.com/"
Unfortunately right now most AI models get into the weeds of asking the user to sign up to netlify or firebase or buying a domain etc - none of which most users are interested in doing.
https://tidal-house-retreat.openai.chatgpt.site/
> Quiet cabins. A view of your own.
They have dots, they had Sora, so many other things that take away attention from just having the best model. There are already a bazillion ways to do this. Sure, the integration's nice, but it's just not needed.
Which means non-technical ChatGPT users are a bit bewildered as to how to pick.
This makes that easy; I suspect normies will fucking love it. My boss will.
I think programmers make the mistake of thinking generative AI is for us, when it is much more ominously about us.
Newsflash: a company that plans to be the most valuable business on earth and has a desperate need for revenue is not going to stay out of anyone’s lane. If you can make an AI wrapper, so can they.
This actually looks like it has meaningful potential, and given how easily they could train it to connect to a whole bunch of off the shelf APIs running in data centres they control, looks like the next generation of the threat to the tech industry.
A little glimpse of the kind of power the industry has gleefully handed to the crypto-for-your-eyeball-scans guy.
Cloud AI has been the face-eating leopard of the tech industry for the last three years. This is them just starting to chew. How long before they tweak it to build intranet apps?
Stuff like this is most of the industry. Why wouldn’t a firm that has so much influence over data centre rollout, RAM and processor prices simply directly start using their code generation tools and data centres to build and run the work product?
Maybe some of the big firms who have been helping train ChatGPT to destroy them will now wake up to the need for open weights.
Especially this. OpenAI will host it. OpenAI will throw "Sign in with ChatGPT" there. "Apps" will be built that depend on end users ChatGPT "connections". The app will fundamentally not work without an end-user having a ChatGPT account/subscription and "connected apps".
Having "the best model" will absolutely not support a $1T+ valuation. Owning the activity of 25-50% of internet users (assuming a split between OAI/Anthropic/Google/maybe-Meta), is.
Anthropic is just trying to get to ASI and relying on the blind faith of investors that there will be a return at the end.
What matters is which strategy is more effective for attracting investor capital, because neither can survive without it.
They are trying to build an ecosystem that can capture the value of AI, whereas LLMs are quickly becoming a commodity.
Where is the moat? How can they convert users?
If you were sitting on a rocket burning cash to not crash you would do that too.
The frontier companies are scrutinized heavily for their trillion dollar valuations all without a clear mass-consumer use-case. They're trying stuff.
I haven't used ChatGPT in over a month. I bounce between Grok, Gemini & Claude. Is ChatGPT even worth it.
Grok can do things the other two can't, like read and fetch websites sometimes where Claude and Gemini cannot.
Gemini is just someone to feed javascript to when you want to save on Claude tokens.
I'm surprised there's not a bigger push into better and useful memory, since that would result in actual lock-in.
I hope you support UBI.
They know the API price wars are a race to the bottom with little/no profit margins.
That limitation doesn't exist with ChatGPT