If this lets you install Linux that would be neat.
Unfortunately holding the PS5 controller gives me crippling pain in my wrists and it also doesn't have any games I care about, but if it could become a Linux media PC, you've got my attention. Especially once its price drops due to the next gen coming out.
From a non-gamer is there any reason there isn't something like an Apple TV Pro that would be a 4K gaming console? I imagine they have hardware capable of this in their existing inventory. Would it be the major game studios are kept locked in to XBox or PS consoles?
Google tried this with Stadia. I was a pretty happy user of it, but I think it probably exposed the weakness of US bandwidth/ throughput. Still trying to find what to do with the two controllers but it was the best refund experience I've gone through and Google probably regrets setting my expectations like that.
Apple tried this, I forgot which year, there was a push to make the Apple TV a console. Arcade support, controller compatibility, it all shipped. You can plug in an Apple TV and pair an Xbox controller right now and play a surprisingly large number of AAA and indie games, from Resident Evil VIII to Slay the Spire. It was too little too late, though. Most games are played on phones, and the console market is falling apart. Microsoft seems to be pulling out, Sony is basically shipping locked-down gaming PCs with a couple of exclusive games. Nintendo is holding course more or less, but their main value propositions are simplicity and first-party exclusivity, and phones already ate the first half of that.
As someone who used to be into console gaming but has been out basically since the PS2, this is an interesting summation of the current state of things. Do you have any color you'd add with regard to the Steam Machine and its potential?
Video games are still video games. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are still the main platforms.
Microsoft is trying to reason about how gaming fits into their computer-centric empire. They've been using the Xbox brand for a new gamepad shell in Windows, for their cloud gaming subscription service, and for the gaming section of the Windows Store.
Steam has built the most popular computer game download service. They're renowned for having sales - you can get the Arkham Trilogy for $5 with some regularity when it would cost you $30 on Nintendo's eShop. It's a meme that most Steam users end up impulse-buying hundreds of cheap games and only playing dozens of them.
Microsoft and Sony have both bought a lot of previously-independent game studios. They've often let them continue publishing on other platforms. For instance, Sony's Spider-Man games are also available on Steam.
There are rumors that amid Microsoft's clusterfuck of an Xbox strategy, the next Xbox is going to share a lot of infrastructure with Windows, including the ability to play Windows games. This has spooked Sony into pulling its new titles from Steam - they don't want people buying an Xbox to play Spider-Man games.
Not an person you're address your question for, but I would say that Steam Machine is a thing Valve released as an addition to their library. Average Steam user has a library for a few hundred of dollars, he can buy a console that guaranteed to has games on it. Its potential depends on PC gaming overall which is bright as people still buying PCs and love to play games on it.
As someone with a Steam Machine, somewhat low potential. It has a console like experience but not everything in the store supports it. It's open then other things but there are plenty of multiplayer games that refuse to support it due to Anti Cheat.
It feels like R&D project that Steam is doing so in case Microsoft gets really aggressive and locks down Windows 11 to point that Steam no longer works, they have fallback option.
The new Steam Machine is a horse of a different color. Unlike AppleTV, the hardware supports the same Proton compatibility layer that people know and love on Steam Deck. The majority of Windows-only titles on Steam run without issue, making the Linux experience quite tolerable.
Apple's policy on macOS, iOS and tvOS is to prioritize native ports at all cost. The difference in compatibility is thousandfold; even games that have native ARM/Mac builds like Cyberpunk 2077, Death Stranding and No Man's Sky only work on macOS and not iOS/tvOS.
The Steam Machine will probably still flop, but Apple's failure vis-a-vis making gaming work is self-inflicted.
> Nintendo is holding course more or less, but their main value propositions are simplicity and first-party exclusivity, and phones already ate the first half of that.
Someone at Nintendo had the genius idea of charging you a subscription fee for internet access.
So, you can play Pokemon Champions on a Switch 2 for $35 / year, or you can play it on your phone, which has an internet connection outside Nintendo's control, for free.
Nintendo's value proposition really seems to be "we will screw you as hard as we can, and we hope you like that".
Developers need to optimize and debug their game for each console. Xbox/PS are completely different platforms (UWP vs heavily customized BSD) so fixes don't transfer over. Adding another incompatible target with new store guidelines and system APIs adds a lot of work so Apple would have a hard time convincing them.
Now add the perception that Mac users don't play games and Apple devices are made for people already in their ecosystem. The only way they could gain market share is competing with Steam Machine as a more open platform, but without a giant library of existing games.
Apple is still against games. Next year they'll remove Rosetta 2, and all the games that require it will stop working. There's no upcoming Vulkan drivers, or upstream support for Proton. CrossOver is expensive and incomplete.
The best gaming hardware will always be the hardware you keep on you; be it a phone, GameBoy, or a Mac. macOS is basically last-place in supporting PC gaming though, and Apple has no qualms letting it die again.
I think this is a multifaceted problem:
- Apple TVs as they currently are can run RetroArch and some other more demanding games just fine, though not at full 4K
- Game engine developers (Unity, Unreal are most notable) work very hard to add optimization tools for mainline consoles, and Apple has only recently started to really bolster this with the GPTK (game porting toolkit) and more Metal/GPU focus
- Ouya and other similar Android standalone boxes have been underpowered for years, and the AI hardware inflation will make this segment harder to get into
Consoles come with a controller and enough storage to be usable for games. The largest Apple TV 4K is 128GB and it's really common for games to easily be 50+ GB or even considerably more. 100 GB is not even that uncommon anymore (e.g., Call of Duty, FF7 Rebirth, Baldur's Gate 3).
When Apple first launched the Apple TV game store they required games be playable with the horrible remote. Understandably even games that would have been fine on the hardware didn't bother and while Apple later relented and allowed games to require a controller it's still an extra purchase that's needed.
Call of duty is kicking close to 500GB to 1TB depending what you have installed.
That said, I think the hardware is totally capable they just don't have a layer to run win32 or Linux apps natively (like proton for m series) so they'd have to commit to what valve is doing for linux, for macos
there is the steam machine but from my experience it is a matter of hardware drivers and support.
Steam Machine is GREAT. But it still has warts around controller support etc...
Also, a lot of AAA games do not work on steam machine because of aggressive anticheat and DRM, and those vendors don't provide Linux builds. No spyware, no game.
The software for the UI just isn't there for Windows machines. There have been attempts but it is always janky and you end up pulling out a keyboard anyway.
Devs are afraid of piracy so they like the walled garden. They don't want emulators running because then they have to compete with the 90s-2015 era which is the golden age of gaming, and their newer games don't stack up ( except in graphics ). Nintendo doesn't want to compete with Mario Kart Double Dash on the Switch 2.
Also: Modern PCs absolutely MOG the Switch 2 and Xbox. The games are all in the same engines and cross-platform anyway, so piracy ends up useful.
> This project is intended for educational and security research purposes only. It does not endorse piracy, unauthorized access, or misuse of commercial devices.
Sure, "education". Releasing exploits for software vulnerabilities has very little to do with education. The relation to piracy is clear however.
Unfortunately holding the PS5 controller gives me crippling pain in my wrists and it also doesn't have any games I care about, but if it could become a Linux media PC, you've got my attention. Especially once its price drops due to the next gen coming out.
Juice might not be worth the squeeze, but have you tried one of their Access controllers?
https://www.amazon.com/Access-Controller-PlayStation-5-Gamin...
Does the PS5's WebKit use JavaScriptCore with JIT enabled? Have to wonder if Sony will respond by disabled its JIT, to narrow the attack surface.
Microsoft is trying to reason about how gaming fits into their computer-centric empire. They've been using the Xbox brand for a new gamepad shell in Windows, for their cloud gaming subscription service, and for the gaming section of the Windows Store.
Steam has built the most popular computer game download service. They're renowned for having sales - you can get the Arkham Trilogy for $5 with some regularity when it would cost you $30 on Nintendo's eShop. It's a meme that most Steam users end up impulse-buying hundreds of cheap games and only playing dozens of them.
Microsoft and Sony have both bought a lot of previously-independent game studios. They've often let them continue publishing on other platforms. For instance, Sony's Spider-Man games are also available on Steam.
There are rumors that amid Microsoft's clusterfuck of an Xbox strategy, the next Xbox is going to share a lot of infrastructure with Windows, including the ability to play Windows games. This has spooked Sony into pulling its new titles from Steam - they don't want people buying an Xbox to play Spider-Man games.
It feels like R&D project that Steam is doing so in case Microsoft gets really aggressive and locks down Windows 11 to point that Steam no longer works, they have fallback option.
Apple's policy on macOS, iOS and tvOS is to prioritize native ports at all cost. The difference in compatibility is thousandfold; even games that have native ARM/Mac builds like Cyberpunk 2077, Death Stranding and No Man's Sky only work on macOS and not iOS/tvOS.
The Steam Machine will probably still flop, but Apple's failure vis-a-vis making gaming work is self-inflicted.
Someone at Nintendo had the genius idea of charging you a subscription fee for internet access.
So, you can play Pokemon Champions on a Switch 2 for $35 / year, or you can play it on your phone, which has an internet connection outside Nintendo's control, for free.
Nintendo's value proposition really seems to be "we will screw you as hard as we can, and we hope you like that".
It's not good, but it's not just Nintendo. In fact, Nintendo is the most reasonably priced.
Now add the perception that Mac users don't play games and Apple devices are made for people already in their ecosystem. The only way they could gain market share is competing with Steam Machine as a more open platform, but without a giant library of existing games.
OSX has also recently released a proton-style compat layer so we are seeing gains there as well.
For a long time Apple was outright AGAINST games. They wanted their machines to be for musicians and artists, not bratty kids.
The best gaming hardware will always be the hardware you keep on you; be it a phone, GameBoy, or a Mac. macOS is basically last-place in supporting PC gaming though, and Apple has no qualms letting it die again.
When Apple first launched the Apple TV game store they required games be playable with the horrible remote. Understandably even games that would have been fine on the hardware didn't bother and while Apple later relented and allowed games to require a controller it's still an extra purchase that's needed.
That said, I think the hardware is totally capable they just don't have a layer to run win32 or Linux apps natively (like proton for m series) so they'd have to commit to what valve is doing for linux, for macos
Apple TV, PS and Xbox all meet that definition. I'm not following what you're pitching…
Steam Machine is GREAT. But it still has warts around controller support etc...
Also, a lot of AAA games do not work on steam machine because of aggressive anticheat and DRM, and those vendors don't provide Linux builds. No spyware, no game.
The software for the UI just isn't there for Windows machines. There have been attempts but it is always janky and you end up pulling out a keyboard anyway.
Devs are afraid of piracy so they like the walled garden. They don't want emulators running because then they have to compete with the 90s-2015 era which is the golden age of gaming, and their newer games don't stack up ( except in graphics ). Nintendo doesn't want to compete with Mario Kart Double Dash on the Switch 2.
Also: Modern PCs absolutely MOG the Switch 2 and Xbox. The games are all in the same engines and cross-platform anyway, so piracy ends up useful.
Edit: Reading through the exploit, looks like linux compatability for older (non 13.6) is possible. 13.6 needs a new hypervisor exploit.
Edit looks like the answer for both questions is yes
Sure, "education". Releasing exploits for software vulnerabilities has very little to do with education. The relation to piracy is clear however.
consoles are sold at a loss, best information i can dig up is that this is still true today, even after all the volume.