11 comments

  • ritzaco 2 minutes ago
    Workplace is such a confusing overloaded term.

    They also have "Mijn Bureau" which I tried out and wrote about here [0] which is the MS Office alternative.

    I take it this is the layer below that, an operating system?

    But it all looks quite fragmented still from what I can see, especially now that it's also split across GitHub and CodeBerg as well as being split across different organizations, and trying to collaborate with other efforts by other European countries while still remaining distinct.

    [0] https://techstackups.com/articles/is-it-feasible-to-self-hos...

    [1] https://github.com/MinBZK/mijn-bureau-infra

    [2] https://code.overheid.nl/MinBZK/DAWO/src/branch/main/compone...

  • askonomm 38 minutes ago
    Any move away from the abusive big tech that exists in USA is a good move in my book. Microsoft just recently made a new patent where they will monitor you via camera and microphone to block your program/game to show you ads, and per ads viewed, you then earn credit to be able to use your program/game. It is absolutely wild to me how a corporation can be so toxic and abusive to its users and still be in business.
    • DrBazza 5 minutes ago
      My pet peeve is changes in 'user agreements' for paid services that add increasing amounts of adverts and tracking, but if you decline, you can't use the service, but the service continues to charge you. For the service they're no longer supplying.

      Just the kind of thing that the EU could regulate if it chose. Decline -> Your subscription will be terminated, no further monies will be debut from your account, are you sure?

    • Thanemate 17 minutes ago
      > It is absolutely wild to me how a corporation can be so toxic and abusive to its users and still be in business.

      It's easy: The choice was made from someone else, and you just accepted it as normal. Hardware vendors shipping PC's with Windows 11, corporations who went all in to Microsoft's tooling shove Microsoft Teams down your throat because "the company uses it", and the list goes on.

      • askonomm 13 minutes ago
        Well of course I wouldn't expect corporations to know what ethics or human decency is even if it stared them straight into the eyes, but I would expect governments to establish laws and regulations such that the psychopaths wouldn't be able to abuse people to no end.
      • eugenehizyyo 9 minutes ago
        [dead]
    • MonkeyClub 27 minutes ago
      Black Mirror has unwittingly been offering a lot of nice, horrible ideas.
      • m4tthumphrey 4 minutes ago
        Well I'd like to think Charlie Brooker, like many of us, could clearly say where humanity was heading. Some of the episodes that were considered far fetched 15 years ago are probably considered plausible at best and likely at worst now.
      • throwaway270925 4 minutes ago
        Too many people seem to have taken it as a todo list instead of a warning...
      • teekert 9 minutes ago
    • artisinal 13 minutes ago
      Error! Please drink a verification can.
  • ricardobeat 55 minutes ago
    A note to the developers in the project, if anyone is reading: your repositories are in violation of the new Codeberg policy that forbids AI-generated code [1].

    [1] https://blog.codeberg.org/protecting-our-floss-commons-from-...

    • KomoD 50 minutes ago
      And Codeberg also blocks real people from accessing it, for who knows what reason. I just get "Access denied." with no more info.

      But they do let me visit blog.codeberg.org

      • sevenzero 36 minutes ago
        Had that issue with HTTP accessed repo, switching to SSH solved it for me.
    • NoahZuniga 50 minutes ago
      Their instance is self hosted right, so this doesn't apply I think.
    • gagik_co 48 minutes ago
      It’d make the most sense for the Dutch government (or DAWO) to have their own Forgejo instance if the goal is data sovereignty.

      edit: looks like this was originally the case and then they moved?

      • cornedor 13 minutes ago
        They use both. https://code.overheid.nl/MinBZK?q=dawo&sort=alphabetically as the official source, and https://codeberg.org/DAWO for the community parts.
      • utopiah 42 minutes ago
        clearly shows the need for federated forges, where you get to decide on your own rules but you still benefit from interacting with a broader set of collaborators.
        • amiga386 14 minutes ago
          That's likely to end up Balkanized like the fediverse, where every instance has a list of other instances they refuse to federate with, often because politics. Though to be fair to the fediverse, often it's because those other instances are full of child porn and most people just don't want to see that.

          It amuses me that Mastodon Central uses corpo-friendly labels for the sites they won't federate with, e.g. (https://mastodon.social/about)

              tsundere.love   Suspended (Hate speech)
              you**.**ve      Suspended (Inappropriate content)
          
          Whereas the more free-wheeling sites, like the ones Mastodon Central blocks, tell it exactly how it is: (https://tsundere.love/about)

              nadeko.pw      CP
              mk.fedcast.ch  Spam
              youjo.love     hosts at least one admitted pedo
        • poulpy123 22 minutes ago
          That's a recipe for drama as shown with mastodon when they got publicity few years ago
        • embedding-shape 26 minutes ago
          Yeah, waiting for this too, feels like the final piece of the puzzle. Tracking issue from Codeberg + more general information about the effort around the the ecosystem:

          - https://codeberg.org/forgejo/forgejo/issues/59 ("[FEAT] implement federation")

          - https://forgefed.org/

          • athrowaway3z 12 minutes ago
            Final piece of what puzzle?

            We can do big federated/distributed development with git at the project level. See the linux kernel.

            If the goal is fancy UI then there are alternatives.

            If the goal is to do a big multi-git with cross repo issue tracker, then that implies either:

            - you're a public site for random repos like codeberg

            - you're a special purpose forge and identity management is a big issue you want full control over.

            IMO - For this to work, they should go with the latter and not try to offload identity into some federated scheme.

    • schnebbau 34 minutes ago
      Codeberg are going to have issues in the future when all code is AI generated (except for artisanal code of course, written for the love of the craft but not to achieve anything of merit).
      • Thanemate 14 minutes ago
        >but not to achieve anything of merit

        Educating oneself to provide better quality of work still requires writing code by hand, and by extend is an achievement of merit.

      • max_streese 29 minutes ago
        Assuming writing code by hand is slower (which I agree with), why can't it still have merit compared to code written via llm harness?
        • schnebbau 14 minutes ago
          Because no one is going to hire developers who write code by hand, apart from a few niches. For the same reason that no one hires a courier who delivers by horse anymore, or a miller who uses windmills to grind their grain, or a cooper who continues to use wooden staves and iron hoops instead of forming plastic or metal containers, or...
      • applfanboysbgon 17 minutes ago
        Policies are enacted for current reality, not fantasy futures. If your magical fantasy becomes reality (it won't), they can just... change their policy. Of course, you aren't thinking about practical effects of policies on platforms, only on how it's an insult to your LLM-bro way of life.
        • schnebbau 13 minutes ago
          > If your magical fantasy becomes reality (it won't)

          Keep huffing that copium my friend. I've set an alarm to follow up here in a couple of years.

          • applfanboysbgon 10 minutes ago
            Sure. You can come gloat about how you're unemployed because nobody needs a prompt monkey when they can just prompt the LLM to produce dogshit code themselves.
    • rvz 13 minutes ago
      I predict that Codeberg will soon realize that they have no choice but to loosen and allow AI generated code.

      There is no point in being on the extreme end about banning any code generated by AI.

      Regardless, there is AI generated code in many repositories on Codeberg anyway.

      • teekert 8 minutes ago
        It may be more a measure against explosive growth than being anti-AI in principle.
    • graemep 49 minutes ago
      Is it on Codeberg? I looked self-hosted to me.
    • docheinestages 32 minutes ago
      Codeberg is trying to solve the right problem with the wrong solution. But hey, it's democratic!
    • streetfighter64 48 minutes ago
      Fair note, but I'd avoid the cheap shot "more open". You'll just bring up the old flame wars about whether the MIT-style or GNU-style licenses are more open.

      The same applies here, is it really "more open" to allow corporations to profit by removing the openness of your work?

      • ricardobeat 32 minutes ago
        Point taken, trimmed that. I do take issue with their position but not the place to start a new discussion.
    • embedding-shape 32 minutes ago
      Did you actually read through that post you linked? You realize not every project that was ever touched by a LLM is being thrown off? Read the "Some early, but informal guidelines" particularly, as you've seemingly missed that.

      They're targeting slop and essentially spam, not everything that could possibly have been built by LLMs.

      • ricardobeat 21 minutes ago
        Quoting from the post:

            > If you see yourself on this list, you don't need to move right away, but
            there might be other places that better fit your needs:
        
            - Projects written and maintained with heavy use of LLMs
        
        All of the commits I browsed here seem to be LLM-assisted, so these projects are in this category. The policy being fuzzy is in itself a problem - "likely to be tolerated" is not a great policy to have your entire government depend on.

        Personally, the refusal on "Projects heavily tied to the LLM ecosystem, e.g. LLM-written tools to ease LLM usage" is enough reason, as that's a good chunk of what I've been working on.

        • rhamzeh 13 minutes ago
          > "enough reason for me to move out"

          And that's not a bad thing. That's why they are communicating, so if you feel that is you and you're uncomfortable about it, you can move out and it's a win win.

          Not everything should service all of us, especially not the smaller services. It's OK for places to have their own rules and them being upfront about this is a *good* thing.

      • wafflemaker 27 minutes ago
        Not OP, but I stand corrected. Thought it was 100% no generated code. Now I know better, thanks! Looks like codeberg aren't as mad as I thought.
  • solarkraft 1 hour ago
    Awesome! I believe NixOS is perfect for systems you just want to work and track reproducibly, like appliances (which a lot of server software is supposed to be). I’m glad people smarter than me are actually able to realize its advantages =)

    In the same space, also check out openDesk initiated by the German Government (https://www.opendesk.eu/en) and La Suite by the French one (https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/).

    AFAIK, there has been some collaboration with the German government on La Suite, not sure about the others.

    • mastermage 56 minutes ago
      This realy would be a great way to foster collaboration within the EU. To create an own independant Ecosystem outside of the microsoft world.
  • vanschelven 57 minutes ago
    For a second I was worried that the actual code behind this was dead in the water ("3 months ago") but it's just one more click away:

    https://code.overheid.nl/MinBZK/DAWO-NixOS

  • bialyalibaba 50 minutes ago
    Nixpkgs should reduce package count. Waiting 2 days for unbound CVE patch merge is unbearable.
    • bouk 1 minute ago
      You don't have to wait? You just have to compile matter yourself
  • KomoD 51 minutes ago
    Site doesn't work for me.

    www.dawo.community took too long to respond.

    • ndom91 25 minutes ago
      Are you in the US? Hehe
  • einpoklum 38 minutes ago
    What is it that they need/add above NixOS defaults?
    • flippingheck 18 minutes ago
      They likely offer at least some of:

      * typical deployments

      * training/consulting

      * compliance with Ditch regulations

      * shared infrastructure for custom builds, and CVEs

  • parlortricks 54 minutes ago
    This is great, would love to understand why Nix over Lix or Guix.
  • London-443 12 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • jimnotgym 37 minutes ago
    To save anyone else I asked Claude

    "NixOS is a Linux distribution where your whole system is defined in one configuration file."

    I didn't get that from looking at their website...

    • vustagc 22 minutes ago
    • russfink 22 minutes ago
      Hopefully the config is a little more descriptive than their README.md
    • sevenzero 33 minutes ago
      NixOS is also unnecessarily complicated and it's easy for someone that doesn't want to read 1000 pages of documentation to brick your system.

      Probably has its uses, tried it twice myself and both times were a lot of struggling.

      For me even Arch was easier to configure than Nix.

      • teekert 6 minutes ago
        That's the nice part, as an admin you are familiar with the complexity and use it for good. As a user, you never have to see it. (And you can even have some freedom for installing apps using flatpack/snap if needed.)

        How would you role out the same config to thousands of Arch systems? Sure Valve does it, but I still think that is a "bolted on top" solution. Bootc could be another option though, but Nix solves reproducibility more elegantly, imho. Nix went back and asked "how can this be done better", where many modern solutions took what was already there.

      • chpatrick 20 minutes ago
        The problem with Arch is that configuration is by hand so you have to do it every time. With Nix you configure it once and then you can deploy it anywhere. Also it's pretty much impossible to break since the system is immutable and you can boot to a different revision any time.
        • sevenzero 14 minutes ago
          I managed to brick my revisions/snapshots before
          • chpatrick 7 minutes ago
            Sure you can make a bad one, but you can always switch to a different one.
      • rantingdemon 17 minutes ago
        Yeah I also wonder about going for NixOS for this. For servers maybe, but for user focussed desktops? The support requirements will be complicated.
      • TitaRusell 22 minutes ago
        The history of the Netherlands is all about making things unnecessarily complicated.

        When lesser nations rally around the flag and elect dictators we have meetings and consultations.

      • dminik 21 minutes ago
        Each nixos rebuild creates a snapshot. While I also eventually moved off of nixos, I've yet to get a system that was as stable as it.
    • aaron695 20 minutes ago
      [dead]