We ended up with a Samsung fridge in our new home. It has no external display or any other indication that it is a "smart" fridge. I only found out when a friend visited who has a Samsung phone and the phone offered to connect to the fridge. We spent the next 30 minutes removing panels from the fridge and found the wifi/bluetooth antenna on a small board under the top-right hinge cover. The board was disconnected and the fridge continues to operate normally.
Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life. A family member went through about 3 different samsung fridges before they swore them off for good. The compressor would routinely break after only a year or 2 of service.
I will never own a Samsung or LG appliance. They are built almost explicitly to force you to get a new one in a couple of years.
Then couple that with both companies trying to use weaselly legal maneuvers like putting the EULA that agrees to arbitration on the outside of a box and saying "If you open this box you agree to the EULA".
> Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life.
When I moved into my first own flat, family, friends and colleagues pressured me to buy good appliances. They will last longer they said.
Buy Miele for a washing machine, nothing else, they said. I didn't had the money for that, so I bought a washing machine for 250 Euro. It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.
Another friend told me he only buys Samsung fridges. Best machines, one shouldn't buy anything else. I bought a fridge for 200 Euro because I liked the retro look and its red color. Also going strong for 10 years and moving two times. He has got the third Samsung fridge in 10 years now.
Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.
Where we live (Kazakhstan), we had a Samsung fridge, AC and TV for about 7 years without any issues whatsoever. After moving to a new apartment, we bought another Samsung fridge and it has been quietly humming along for over 2 years now.
Why are you throwing LG in with Samsung? They routinely have some of the most durable appliances, check consumer reports if you don't believe me. They even offer ten year warranty on their direct drive washer and dryers
damn I really like my samsung fridge and dishwasher that ive had for just over 2 years. Hopefully my fate is not the same cause that dishwasher is quieter than a church mouse. if it is, back to the scratch and dent appliance store for something else I guess
Appliances with mandatory wi-fi is a bad trend. The mid-tier dishwasher from Bosch locks the Eco(nomy) energy saver cycle and delayed start functionality behind a smartphone app. This requires connecting the dishwasher to wi-fi and use the smartphone to create a Bosch online account. That's what the whole Jeff Geerling complaint video was all about.
Aside: I heard that "eco mode" is typically not actually the most energy efficient mode on most washing machines. Apparently it's a standard mode they have to add so that energy efficiency can be measured across machines, but that means it can't be optimised.
You're typically better off looking for some kind quick/fast mode. Or even the "regular" mode.
There's an old joke floating around if anyone remembers where it's from:
A tech enthusiast has the latest and greatest smartphones, voice assistants, and everything else cool and flashy. A programmer has a single inkjet printer from the 90s, and they keep a shotgun by their bedside in case it makes a noise.
Ugh, I've avoided connecting my TV to Wifi to avoid all "smart" crap but it does support some "wireless" display from Windows that seems to be local based and I do get periodic requests to connect to other devices (My conundrum now becomes, is the TV safer with or without remote connection/updates).
What you should have done is install a webcam, connect it to some SuperMarket AI App Api (tm) and supply your credit card info. Now you never have to worry about food anymore. :)
Reminds me of when Nest thermostats stopped turning on the furnace without an internet connection. If your product fails at its primary job because of some other priority its junk. A thermostat can be as simple as a coiled spring with a mercury switch - no software. Same here, what stupid functionality was so important they failed to ensure the fridge would fridge?
A device like a printer can work without certain inks without damage, but at the cost of quality.
Humans have historically been able to decide when quality is low enough that replacement/repair is necessary in these situations. This goes for almost anything: appliances, farming equipment, clothing, etc.
Having a device/appliance/tool that decides for you that “it’s time”, especially when the manufacturer has a vested interest in coercing you into a buying a replacement right away, takes away that owner agency.
I am not an SWE, rather a hardware guy with light software experience, and the next home project on my docket is getting AI to write the code for my own ESP32 thermostat (with a nice e-paper display too).
We have a mix of splits, central air, and gas baseboard, so being able to customize all that to fit our utility pricing time slots is a dream.
That, plus blocking all updates from the 'smart' devices; in the last few years, I dont remember anything getting better from updates, everything is actually getting way worse.
I have a Sonos soundbar. It used to be nice. Now it automatically goes to sleep after a few minutes of tv inactivity. I now hate the device and the company.
My old M1 mbp used to feel super fast. A number of MacOs updates later it feels sluggish. I don't see anything better about MacOs of today vs. 3 years ago, literally NOTHING.
My apple tv now routinely drops airplay -- it used to work flawlessly.
Etc. etc. All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.
An official update hard (and permanently) bricked my S8 phone back when it was still the flagship. Samsung refused to fix or replace it because I had moved overseas meanwhile.
While "technically" valid, this never happened with iPhones despite frequent travels.
Reminded me of the August incident where the freezers at multiple U.S. Department of Defense commissionaires were remotely triggered to enter into "defrost" mode and cooked all their refrigerated food overnight.
As someone who is bad at tracking what food I have in there and how long I have to eat it until it spoils, I can see the use for some automation here and that would be complex enough for convenient updates to make sense. Similarly, when I'm at the store I don't always know if I still have enough of $perishable or if I should get more.
I however have zero trust in our tech industry making this work without abusing me at every possibility so I will never buy such a product.
I can imagine one good use: plotting graphs of inner temperature, configured set point, motor on/off status, door open/closed status, and power consumption. But that use case does not require having control of the fridge compressor...
I do not disagree with your sentiment. We have had refrigerators for 100+ years [citation needed] after all. Still there are likely cases where it is useful. Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example. There are plenty of ways to deal with this but one might be a connected refrigerator.
> Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example
You would turn up unannounced with things you think are missing from the fridge surveillance camera? Here's how that should go: Visit old person. Check fridge. Check cupboards. Visit store. Visit old person.
The fridge compressor answers to software? Idiocy. It need be nothing more than a relay attached to a thermocouple. I can see having a smart screen to deliver aps/ads and to collect data on people in the home, but why on earth would that need to actually manipulate temperatures?
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone.
That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I find that the anti-smart device brigade among tech enthusiasts is very detached from the reality of what consumers want. The general public does demand smart features and they want them to work well.
The sin here isn’t that the fridge is smart, the sin is that bad software was pushed out.
My particular refrigerator also has a purposefully limited set of features. You’ll notice that real luxury brands like Sub-Zero don’t pack their refrigerators with crazy feature lists and touch screens. Their smart apps are basic and focus on essentials like “door left open” or “change filter” notifications and remote temperature adjustment. They don’t have complicated features like craft cocktail ice and even basic stuff like water dispensing is an optional extra (since it’s assumed that luxury clients may have a separate dedicated reverse osmosis and sparkling water machine for that). They don’t push out frequent updates and they keep their smart functions as modular components since it’s assumed that the refrigerator will remain installed permanently for decades (e.g., you can add a newer control system with touch screen and WiFi to your older Sub-Zero fridge).
It would be nice if non-luxury brands followed some of these philosophies a little more.
Does a relay with a thermocouple get you the cycles required for no-frost features? I agree that there should be adequate safeguards at every turn but its not like computerized control of fridge temperature doesn't make sense.
In 2006 shortly after I bought my (first and still only) home, I bought the cheapest Kenmore fridge from Sears (~$600 at the time) as the one that came with the house failed soon after moving in - it was probably 26 years old with metal grill shelves. I was stretched for money for a bit due to dealing with closing costs, etc. I figured it'd last 5-10 years and I'd just get a new, "better" one when my cashflow wasn't acutely tight.
Despite having since remodelled the kitchen (again spending more than expected as one does when renovating), I kept the fridge...it's still working fine 20 years later, though the plastic drawers are starting to degrade. Next to higher-end German appliances it looks a bit well worn and out of place in an otherwise very nicely renovated kitchen, which my wife and I semi-seriously joke gives the place character.
Every once in awhile I'll wander through an appliance aisle and sigh. Similar fridges feel cheap and are much more expensive. In fancy fridges, I just see more components that'd fail. I'll I really want is a freezer and a fridge. I want need an ice maker (especially after learning how gross they can get). Ideally I'd have a standard old-fashioned sized fridge that had a good separate temperature control for the freezer and is common enough that I can get replacement parts 20 years from now.
The kicker was I now realize the old 26 year old fridge probably just needed a coolant top up. Maybe that wasn't possible as I'm not sure when freon was banned and if it would have been possible to do that.
Because the temperature is adjusted and they want to be able to display the current temperature as well as the target on said display? And once you’ve done that, your bean counters will pressure you to shave the BOM.
Not saying it’s smart, just laying out a plausible sequence of events on how they reached that decision
> they want to be able to display the current temperature
Do they really? When replacing my 20 year old fridge (that had an actual mechanical temperature gauge) with a new one I specifically bought one that had a (now digital, of course) display for the current temperature.
It turned out that the temperature display is completely faked. It always shows exactly the set temperature, from the moment you power it on. I guess because of (actual or imagined) customers complaining why their fridge shows e.g. 7°C when they set it to 4°C.
Incidentally, my new smart AC does exactly the same thing. Subjectively it's worse than the old one at keeping the place not too cold and not too warm, but it makes damn sure to never show the actual measured temperature anywhere.
It probably has more to do with consumer fridges being a bang-bang controller situation where temperature will always fluctuate several degrees either side of the desired number.
I am now eyeing my dishwasher very suspiciously.
I will never own a Samsung or LG appliance. They are built almost explicitly to force you to get a new one in a couple of years.
Then couple that with both companies trying to use weaselly legal maneuvers like putting the EULA that agrees to arbitration on the outside of a box and saying "If you open this box you agree to the EULA".
When I moved into my first own flat, family, friends and colleagues pressured me to buy good appliances. They will last longer they said.
Buy Miele for a washing machine, nothing else, they said. I didn't had the money for that, so I bought a washing machine for 250 Euro. It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.
Another friend told me he only buys Samsung fridges. Best machines, one shouldn't buy anything else. I bought a fridge for 200 Euro because I liked the retro look and its red color. Also going strong for 10 years and moving two times. He has got the third Samsung fridge in 10 years now.
Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.
Where we live (Kazakhstan), we had a Samsung fridge, AC and TV for about 7 years without any issues whatsoever. After moving to a new apartment, we bought another Samsung fridge and it has been quietly humming along for over 2 years now.
I never heard anybody complaining about Samsung.
Appliances with mandatory wi-fi is a bad trend. The mid-tier dishwasher from Bosch locks the Eco(nomy) energy saver cycle and delayed start functionality behind a smartphone app. This requires connecting the dishwasher to wi-fi and use the smartphone to create a Bosch online account. That's what the whole Jeff Geerling complaint video was all about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M_hmwBBPnc
You're typically better off looking for some kind quick/fast mode. Or even the "regular" mode.
(YMMV, look things up for your specific model)
A tech enthusiast has the latest and greatest smartphones, voice assistants, and everything else cool and flashy. A programmer has a single inkjet printer from the 90s, and they keep a shotgun by their bedside in case it makes a noise.
IoT is not for me.
That "feature" and incompetence at The Intercept leaked the identity of Reality Winner.
I expect the printer to use whatever inks it has on hand to print in the best quality it can.
The use of ink is an inevitability.
It always struck me as one of those things analogous to “I don’t understand why my car needs oil when I already put gas in it.”
Just give the machine the stuff it requires to operate.
Humans have historically been able to decide when quality is low enough that replacement/repair is necessary in these situations. This goes for almost anything: appliances, farming equipment, clothing, etc.
Having a device/appliance/tool that decides for you that “it’s time”, especially when the manufacturer has a vested interest in coercing you into a buying a replacement right away, takes away that owner agency.
A printer can still print black when color ink is gone
We have a mix of splits, central air, and gas baseboard, so being able to customize all that to fit our utility pricing time slots is a dream.
I have a Sonos soundbar. It used to be nice. Now it automatically goes to sleep after a few minutes of tv inactivity. I now hate the device and the company.
My old M1 mbp used to feel super fast. A number of MacOs updates later it feels sluggish. I don't see anything better about MacOs of today vs. 3 years ago, literally NOTHING.
My apple tv now routinely drops airplay -- it used to work flawlessly.
Etc. etc. All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/samsungs-tizen-is-ri...
https://pvs-studio.com/en/blog/posts/cpp/0519/
While "technically" valid, this never happened with iPhones despite frequent travels.
Don't buy Samsung consumer devices.
I however have zero trust in our tech industry making this work without abusing me at every possibility so I will never buy such a product.
Why should anyone care about stuff that happens after Sales has gotten the customer's money?
You would turn up unannounced with things you think are missing from the fridge surveillance camera? Here's how that should go: Visit old person. Check fridge. Check cupboards. Visit store. Visit old person.
https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0def6aed-0b5b-4856-874a-d97...
That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I find that the anti-smart device brigade among tech enthusiasts is very detached from the reality of what consumers want. The general public does demand smart features and they want them to work well.
The sin here isn’t that the fridge is smart, the sin is that bad software was pushed out.
My particular refrigerator also has a purposefully limited set of features. You’ll notice that real luxury brands like Sub-Zero don’t pack their refrigerators with crazy feature lists and touch screens. Their smart apps are basic and focus on essentials like “door left open” or “change filter” notifications and remote temperature adjustment. They don’t have complicated features like craft cocktail ice and even basic stuff like water dispensing is an optional extra (since it’s assumed that luxury clients may have a separate dedicated reverse osmosis and sparkling water machine for that). They don’t push out frequent updates and they keep their smart functions as modular components since it’s assumed that the refrigerator will remain installed permanently for decades (e.g., you can add a newer control system with touch screen and WiFi to your older Sub-Zero fridge).
It would be nice if non-luxury brands followed some of these philosophies a little more.
...why do you need to change the fridge temperature remotely?
I could implement that in a weekend on an ESP board.
Despite having since remodelled the kitchen (again spending more than expected as one does when renovating), I kept the fridge...it's still working fine 20 years later, though the plastic drawers are starting to degrade. Next to higher-end German appliances it looks a bit well worn and out of place in an otherwise very nicely renovated kitchen, which my wife and I semi-seriously joke gives the place character.
Every once in awhile I'll wander through an appliance aisle and sigh. Similar fridges feel cheap and are much more expensive. In fancy fridges, I just see more components that'd fail. I'll I really want is a freezer and a fridge. I want need an ice maker (especially after learning how gross they can get). Ideally I'd have a standard old-fashioned sized fridge that had a good separate temperature control for the freezer and is common enough that I can get replacement parts 20 years from now.
The kicker was I now realize the old 26 year old fridge probably just needed a coolant top up. Maybe that wasn't possible as I'm not sure when freon was banned and if it would have been possible to do that.
Not saying it’s smart, just laying out a plausible sequence of events on how they reached that decision
Do they really? When replacing my 20 year old fridge (that had an actual mechanical temperature gauge) with a new one I specifically bought one that had a (now digital, of course) display for the current temperature.
It turned out that the temperature display is completely faked. It always shows exactly the set temperature, from the moment you power it on. I guess because of (actual or imagined) customers complaining why their fridge shows e.g. 7°C when they set it to 4°C.
Incidentally, my new smart AC does exactly the same thing. Subjectively it's worse than the old one at keeping the place not too cold and not too warm, but it makes damn sure to never show the actual measured temperature anywhere.
Everything is getting dumber.