3 comments

  • chaz6 25 minutes ago
    Crimes on this scale warrant capital punishment.
    • culi 10 minutes ago
      Imagine if we policed white collar crime anywhere near as much as blue collar crime
      • wpietri 4 minutes ago
        That, alas, would violate Wilhoit's law.
  • croes 50 minutes ago
    So like with climate change the ones responsible knew for decades but preferred the profit.
    • Sharlin 49 minutes ago
      And tobacco. And leaded gasoline. And...

      We really are one fucked up species. But can evolution even produce anything better? Anything that's not so prone to coordination problems?

      • customguy 41 minutes ago
        No, these are really fucked up people, to leap from that to "the species" and from that to "evolution" which humans had no clue about even hundreds of years ago... is just avoiding confronting that and them. It's half of the the reason for why these things happen and get worse, a sort of global bystander effect. We feel okay to in public dismiss this.

        If you were one in a group of 4 people, and one of them fed poison to a child to remove a stain from their shoe, or just for a laugh, or for 2 cents, and someone got upset, would you talk about the species or evolution first thing? What habit did we normalise here?

        • Sharlin 37 minutes ago
          No, we as a civilization are ultimately responsible for giving bad actors power, and indeed often glorifying those actors. There are evolutionary reasons why it is so, but that's absolutely not to say that these things just happen and a species with a very different psychology couldn't avoid the same trap.
          • wongarsu 28 minutes ago
            As a society we tend to reward sociopaths with power, which leads to stuff like forever chemicals. But society providing neither checks-and-balances nor even a credible thread of punishment after the fact is also part of the issue. Even sociopaths are influenced by the threat of punishment
        • root_axis 24 minutes ago
          Nah, it's the species. Corporate greed is near the bottom of the list among the accolades of human cruelty.
          • kingkawn 11 minutes ago
            No previous era of cruelty has threatened the existence of life itself. Corporate greed is the most hideous, horrific, inhumane era of human culture that has ever been.
        • InsideOutSanta 8 minutes ago
          In the real world, two out of these four people vote to protect the poisoner because poison is a conspiracy against the freedom to feed children anything you want.
      • traviswingo 44 minutes ago
        I’ve long suspected it’ll take us _almost_ going extinct to actually take this stuff seriously.

        There are too few of us who understand asymmetric risk, and too many in power who are willing to roll the dice for the entire species for profit.

        Realistically, it will have to get much, much, worse before it gets any better.

        IMO this is part of the natural evolutionary cycle.

      • mitthrowaway2 24 minutes ago
        The only species I can think of that coordinate better than humans do are ants, bees, and naked mole rats.
      • culi 7 minutes ago
        Asbestos too. And glyphosates which have devastated insect populations. Veritasium did great documentaries on both of those crises

        glyphosate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxVXvFOPIyQ

        asbestos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMx139eTxoc

        It took decades for the science to finally flow freely since both of these industries heavily targeted the scientific institutions themselves. Who knows what other pesticides and chemical companies are following the same playbook that we won't get to know about for decades.

      • tracerbulletx 45 minutes ago
        We're our own moral judges. Biology doesn't have an ethical opinion.
        • Sharlin 40 minutes ago
          "Better", as in, capable as a civilization of avoiding doing things that are incredibly harmful according to their own morals. Capable of defeating their own Moloch, if you will.
      • someothherguyy 42 minutes ago
        cheater detection and self-correction is important in systems. i am not sure "fucked-up" is a meaningful way to look at species-level things.
        • tux3 6 minutes ago
          Even looking only at different cultures, saying nothing of nature, the degree to which people are willing to cooperate or defect against the group varies widely. The level of trust varies widely.

          People aren't motivated solely by the risk of being caught. Some people tell themselves that everyone else must be trying to cheat, so it's okay for them to cheat. But this type of thinking isn't a law of nature, it's just a human flaw.

          The amount of cheating is not a fundamental constant. Given that people are social animals and that we tend to be stronger as a group, in fact you'd expect that prosocial behavior is good for the species. If fucked up is to mean anything, poisoning the environment with forever chemicals ought to make the fucking cut, if you'll pardon my French.

        • Sharlin 34 minutes ago
          Yes, and our cheater detection is entirely broken, given that we prefer to give power to cheaters, as long as the cheater is smart enough.
          • someothherguyy 23 minutes ago
            yeah, sometimes cheaters winning is a net benefit or at least acceptable. although, i don't think those cases above are, heh.
      • clickety_clack 18 minutes ago
        …gambling, social media…
      • rTX5CMRXIfFG 40 minutes ago
        Oh, evolution certainly can. The bad ones always get killed off.
    • 2OEH8eoCRo0 25 minutes ago
      I don't understand it though. These chemicals poison their own families right?