13 comments

  • aaraujo002 1 hour ago
  • arbuge 1 minute ago
    I think what they're really getting hooked on is the lowest cost provider.

    Which makes the Muse 1.3 launch this week particularly interesting, although to get the low cost version you do need to agree to share data with Meta.

  • cmiles8 18 minutes ago
    Every larger company I talk to these days has an active project on moving away from OpenAI and Anthropic to open models. And they’re actively shifting, as the article says, so the threat is far from theoretical.

    Unless they both dramatically slash prices then they’re in big trouble. Neither of them can afford to do that and both desperately need to convince the street that the opposite will happen if they want any hope at a successful IPO.

    However the cold reality for both is that there is zero moat to a model anymore. It’s a pure commodity. Those selling compute and access to open models are gearing up to wipe the floor with Open AI and Anthropic.

    • r_lee 1 minute ago
      I knew that there was no real moat from the very start, I mean, these things were close enough from the very start, how could it not result in a race to the bottom, especially as you can't really prevent distillation reliably?
  • petcat 44 minutes ago
    > Some U.S. firms remain reluctant to use Chinese A.I. models because of concerns over regulation and data privacy. AT&T researches Chinese models but is not using them, Mr. Markus said. Instead, it is working with popular alternatives made by American companies such as the Gemma A.I. model from Google and the Llama A.I. models from Meta.

    This makes sense since corporations require legal certainty, and using an open model from an American company (probably) provides them some level of indemnity, and also someone to sue.

    • Waterluvian 28 minutes ago
      The current U.S. regime is also replacing some amount of that legal certainty with regime fealty. Picking Chinese options over American ones probably runs a risk of upsetting their leader. I've got to imagine American companies are weighing this factor in their decisions.
      • petcat 20 minutes ago
        That's certainly one factor, yes. But even before getting to that part I think the bigger issues for Big Corp legal teams is mostly around the legal ambiguity of the models themselves. What representations are made about the training data? What jurisdiction governs the license? If somebody alleges that the model infringes their IP, what rights does AT&T have?

        Counterparty risk is a lot more straight-forward to evaluate when dealing entirely within the US, with US companies.

        • honr 6 minutes ago
          To me, the legal concerns seem blown out of proportion. If you use open weight models (of dubious origin) to generate code, you can still verify them with code review and tests and other methods, used to verify human output, right? That is still a great win, maybe not as much as having AI write all the code, but that would be a reasonable point in control vs quantity spectrum for most solid and well made products.

          But if you let LLMs talk to people (customers, for example) directly, then yes, you need an LLM provider that you can hold responsible.

        • rolisz 4 minutes ago
          Haven't american companies outsourced manufacturing to China for a long time now? I think they have enough experience with dealing with China.
    • _the_inflator 18 minutes ago
      Exactly. See TikTok trouble as example and quite honestly, try a local open source LLM and ask it to use profanity, paint nudes - the LLM doesn’t answer the question of it is from OpenAI or Google.

      The thing is that needs more attention is reverse engineered a LLM which is highly fascinating. I tried it, but it seems I am not there yet to put it mildly. It requires serious effort.

      I am just speculating but can LLMs be sleepers? You write software and it seeds traces here and there under certain conditions that pose a serious security risk.

      Or a kill switch?

      I don’t know. I distrust Chinese LLMs but even more due to training data.

      It is after all not a Western model. Different biases and the might be subtle but nevertheless substantial.

      In short: no open source LLM may be usable without additional Finetuning for certain valid use cases.

      The real value is versioning and autonomy as well as lot more stable answering despite model rot.

      Also testing and the supporting systems are easier to maintain.

      It is mainly an infrastructure challenge.

      • kakacik 8 minutes ago
        Since most folks still somehow review the code, I find it highly improbable, it would become visible quickly. Unless say compiling Unix parts for example. But thats compiler work and not llm.
        • majorchord 4 minutes ago
          Jia Tan would disagree.

          The overwhelmingly vast majority of open-source code isn't actually looked at or audited. Yes it's there for all to see, but that doesn't mean it's doing any good at the moment, in this context.

    • SamInTheShell 3 minutes ago
      Read the license again.
      • petcat 0 minutes ago
        The license you receive when you download Gemma off of Google's website is not necessarily the same license that AT&T gets when they deploy Gemma as a customer service bot. That's the whole point. AT&T can work directly with Google for a licensing and legal framework that provides certainty.
  • MrResearcher 4 minutes ago
    What IDE/extensions do you use for open-source LLMs? I tried VSCode with ollama and lm studio, and the experience is very subpar to the built-in copilot. It's not very usable.
  • syntaxing 20 minutes ago
    I swear, Qwen 3.8 27B @ Q8 is smarter than Sonnet 5 most of the time. Why wouldn’t corporate America self host at this point, especially with better options like Deepseek Flash and GLM 5.3 flash that’s a middle ground between Sonnet and Opus
    • SamInTheShell 1 minute ago
      @q4 is definitely smarter than sonnet from what I’ve seen so far. It’s even caught problems in code made by fable, when using it as a code reviewer.
    • majorchord 2 minutes ago
      Agreed. And conversely, American models can also just as easily be secretly influenced for bad things, or be more tightly controlled by the government, to corporate America's own detriment.
  • slowin 55 minutes ago
    I'd love to! For real coding though, SOTA models barely get the job done. It wasn't until Opus 4.5 that you could really get decent results.

    I'm sure this will change (and I can't wait for it!) but as of today, open models might be fine for summarizing and writing docs, but you need SOTA to work on code if you want to be competitive.

    • nemomarx 33 minutes ago
      Every time I check in on this I hear a more recent model is the one where they started doing good work. I'm excited to here that Astra is where it got capable enough to work on code next year
      • tomashubelbauer 25 minutes ago
        I think it truly just was Opus 4.5 where LLMs became usable for coding.
        • zackify 24 minutes ago
          Yeah what, I'm using flash models and getting a ton of stuff done. 300-400b param size with pi.dev
    • kbwal7 49 minutes ago
      I do think there are now open weight models that are on par with (or beating) Opus 4.5 by now (e.g. Kimi K3, GLM5.3). But yeah obviously the frontier closed source models seem to have pulled away once again, so open weight seems to be a few months behind right now (which might be too long to wait for a lot of people!).
    • horsawlarway 21 minutes ago
      You're not corporate America (and trust me, I mostly mean that as a plus).

      I also work in software, and while I vaguely disagree that open models can't be used (they absolutely fit into productive niches here, and holy hell are the last generation [ex laguna s1, kimi k3, glm 5.3, etc] actually decent) - I will agree that SOTA are a better fit for software development, especially when used in conjunction with an already very expensive employee who's driving them.

      But for "Corporate America"... no. You absolutely don't need SOTA. They're doing things like transcription, summarization, customer interaction, minor technical tasks like form creation in existing tools, report generation (ex - powerpoint, pdf, docs, etc) and other general "white collar tasks". Think about roles in business that are in the 60-85k compensation range.

      It's mostly busy work that keeps existing processes flowing and the business on the rails. Important, but not research/novel.

      And cheap ai... is a wonderful fit for a lot of this. No one wants to replace an employee making 80k with a less reliable AI that costs 45k a year in tokens (SOTA). But they're absolutely willing to drop 2-3k/year on AI (~100/month - right in the open model cost range) for that employee if they can get a 10% bump in productivity or happiness.

  • cisrockandroll 3 minutes ago
    Just use OpenRouter
  • chasd00 11 minutes ago
    I'm not seeing it. Corporate America needs someone they can sue if anything goes sideways with AI given the rate of change and legal ambiguities. It took years/decades for actual, real, open source to be widely adopted in corporations for the same reasons.
    • cmiles8 9 minutes ago
      Corporate America has been using open source for decades, and it wasn’t anywhere as slow as you portray. This argument simply doesn’t hold water.

      Besides, in their present rather dire financial state there isn’t much to sue these companies for anyway cash wise. NYTimes is suing on IP grounds.

  • gflh73 49 minutes ago
    How is the NYT's copyright lawsuit against OpenAI going and why have you abandoned your start witness Suchir Balaji?

    Have you been brought into line? Open source AI also violates copyrights.

    • ronsor 34 minutes ago
      Oh no! I'll make sure to tell the Chinese companies about the copyright risks.
    • Der_Einzige 47 minutes ago
      Most open source fans are also hostile to copyrights existence and are openly IP abolitionists. As such, they collectively respond with "good."

      This is actual communism, and the fact that Bernie Sanders and every other member of the DSA isn't actively fighting for open source and is often fighting against all AI shows how fake their purported movements are and have always been.

      • tsimionescu 18 minutes ago
        If IP were entirely abolished tomorrow with no other change to our economic system, you would still not have universal Healthcare (maybe drug prices would be lower, though), Elon Musk could still donate however much he wants to get his preferred politicians elected, fossil fuels would still be used in amounts that destroy the world, etc. Very importantly, AI would still be used to try to manipulate and control the public.

        The fact they prioritize other fights more than OSS, and have a rather dim view of AI, is hardly proof that they are fake.

      • roarcher 19 minutes ago
        > Most open source fans are also hostile to copyrights existence and are openly IP abolitionists.

        To the extent that that's true (it isn't), said fans are idiots. Open source licenses are only enforceable because of copyright law. How are you going to enforce GPL3 when you have no legal authority to say what people are allowed to do with your code?

      • 2948154 39 minutes ago
        Who cares about power user fans? They don't own the copyright.

        Open source authors have always been protective of their copyright. There are numerous examples when drivers have been copied between BSD/Linux (I forget which direction) which led to huge flame wars.

        The whole point of the GPL is that it uses copyright and copyright assignment to the FSF to protect what it calls software freedom.

        BSD authors are very upset if the attribution clause isn't observed. And so on.

        It is communism to exploit poor open source authors? I have to read Marx again.

      • add-sub-mul-div 31 minutes ago
        There's no reason that one's feelings about AI can't supersede their feelings about open source. We all live with a complex tapestry of values.
      • fcarraldo 41 minutes ago
        While I don’t disagree that they should be fighting for open source AI, Sanders is hardly “fighting against all AI”.

        https://jacobin.com/2026/07/ai-nationalization-sanders-liber...

        • shimman 36 minutes ago
          I've been disappointed with Sanders lately, his age is showing and how he got convinced to give these LLM companies a massive federal bailout is bonkers.
      • Supermancho 21 minutes ago
        Anti-capitalism does not automatically qualify as communism. Notably, if IP were to be abolished, it doesn't belong to anyone. The expectation that open anything includes some sort of DRM-like content gating is counterproductive.
  • _doctor_love 28 minutes ago
    Easy prediction: LLMs will get shrunk down further and further until GenAI is just something that ships on a chip as part of your hardware. In the future it will seem quaint that we needed a network connection to talk to our LLM.

    Adoption of open-source models to my mind is a similar step in that direction. In all cases, the goal is to become untethered from a mercurial vendor.

  • optimalsolver 37 minutes ago
    Google can make themselves the heroes of the AI story by releasing a 120B dense Gemma model.
    • amelius 33 minutes ago
      They already released the transformers paper, and I'm sure they are now scratching their head about it.
  • natebc 12 minutes ago
    [dead]