The Dutch are filling gas wells with cement

(siliconcontinent.com)

34 points | by Gijs4g 1 hour ago

15 comments

  • Aquitard 0 minutes ago
    > destroying them doesn't do anything for safety or the environment.

    This is correct because cement is not an adequate plug for well decomissioning. Cement cracks and erodes due to groundwater aggressivity, heat stress and other stresses. A better alternative would be expansive clays like bentonite but a far more costlier exercise.

  • mahrain 7 minutes ago
    This was done for mostly ideological reasons, "green transition" and such. The Dutch economy was dependent on natural gas sales for funding parts of the welfare state. They became a net importer of natural gas and then Ukraine and Iran made the gas prices spike. So the Dutch government is now struggling to fill the natural gas store for household heating and cooking applications for the coming winter season, while also incurring these high costs. The impact hasn't fully played out or understood.
    • wjnc 2 minutes ago
      I agree with the ideological part of it. But the Dutch economy or governement was perhaps “dependant” on the revenues in the 80s (peak at >15% of gov exp), but in recent years it was more like 1%. The strategic concern is not primarily a financial concern.

      I generally don’t believe in conspiracies, but not filling the strategic reserves for next winter (each year after the energy shock of a few years ago, they fill the gas storage less) looks like a way to scare the populace into making the electric transition via a government made supply shock.

    • 28304283409234 5 minutes ago
      While everyone knows that welfare state should be dependent on taxing the absurdly rich instead of on gas sales.
    • teekert 5 minutes ago
      The impact for me is double gas prices compared to a couple of years ago. About 300€ a month, year round.
  • apexalpha 19 minutes ago
    As a Dutch person I can confirm this article is: 1) Roughly correct chronologically. 2) COMPLETELY devoid of the actual political reasons behind this being done.
    • serial_dev 11 minutes ago
      Then, please, tell us what you think the political reasons are behind this being done??
      • contravariant 3 minutes ago
        If the local population saw more of the economic benefits, was taken more seriously when they complained about earth quake risk, and was compensated more readily when the earth quakes resulted in actual damage, then maybe they would have been more willing to allow the gas fields to exist as a strategic reserve.

        As it stands the local population has little more to show for it than demolished homes and damaged monuments and having an economic disease named after them.

    • _joel 14 minutes ago
      Which are? (Brit here asking though curiosity)
  • phyzix5761 4 minutes ago
    Didn't the decisions of past generations lead us to the climate issues we have today? Won't future generations also say the same about our decisions? Why permanently destroy assets that future generations could potentially use when they discover how to make it more environmentally friendly? Seems very shortsighted to me; like we know better than anyone else and our views will never be questioned.
  • CalRobert 27 minutes ago
    "The government is demolishing the wells to prevent a future government from reconsidering its decision to stop producing gas."

    As well they should. This country should be electrifying much, much faster. A place literally below sea level is more invested in stopping climate breakdown than most. Sadly the way they're going about it is really a bad hack, and encourages prolonged gas dependency by subsidizing "hybrid" heat pumps (that still require a gas boiler).

    I installed heat pumps last spring and it is frustrating that they didn't qualify for any subsidy because they also happen to be air conditioning. And while I might have been able to get a subsidy for an induction hob, there wasn't much point because the one I got for <€200 has been great, and plugged in to a normal outlet. The only trade off is that I can't run all the burners on max power at the same time, and boiling water is _slightly_ slower then when I had a 6kw one.

    Hot water is still an issue though. Heat Pump water heaters seem almost unheard of, and I also worry that if I rip out the radiators and the legacy CV Ketel (which I both hate) then it would affect insurability and resale.

    • eknkc 20 minutes ago
      > As well they should.

      Assuming there is no pressing reason and the wells are dormant, why would it be a good idea to destroy options? I did not fact check these claims though. Maybe there are other reasons to close them. But if it is solely do remove them from equation altogether, it is stupid.

      • tsimionescu 6 minutes ago
        Burning fossil fuels is not a real option, it is a threat to all of humanity that it is horrendous we are not doing more to stop.
      • jaggederest 18 minutes ago
        • eknkc 17 minutes ago
          These are European governments with trillions of dollars of GDPs. They should not be trying to cock block themselves like teenagers in these matters.
          • Kognito 4 minutes ago
            Welcome to Europe
      • InsideOutSanta 13 minutes ago
        Presumably, if technology advances to the point where it is safe to burn fossil fuels again, it will also advance to the point where cement won't stop people from accessing the gas wells.
      • watwut 10 minutes ago
        Looking where USA is and where some EU countries may he going soon (not sure yet, but the risk is there) ... that is why.
    • citrin_ru 3 minutes ago
      Destroying own wells only to import gas does nothing to reduce the carbon footprint (it's actually increases it if you'll account emissions from LNG tankers). Efforts should be directed into non-carbon generation and electrification. And if it will be competitive there will be little incentives for the next government to restart the production.
    • teekert 11 minutes ago
      The subsidies are a scam that make construction companies more wealthy, there has hardly been a drop in the price you eventually pay imho. I insulated my entire house myself... No subsidy. Ah well, it is more comfortable (though partly we are exchanging the ability to stay warm in winter with that of staying cool in summer), but to say I really notice that we use much less gas... Not really actually. Strange right? I expected much more from it.
    • rebolek 12 minutes ago
      > As well they should.

      Because pouring millions of tons of concrete to the ground is very environment friendly.

    • blitzar 18 minutes ago
      > "The government is demolishing the wells to prevent a future government from reconsidering its decision to stop producing gas."

      Should there be a reconsideration - they could of course always just drill new wells into the known, proven resource. If they mothballed the existing wells for a few years they would probably need to anyway, or spend piles of money keeping them viable.

      • vidarh 12 minutes ago
        Yes, but making it more effort/costlier makes it less likely that it will be done unless there are really compelling reasons to.
        • grebc 9 minutes ago
          They’ll just dig new holes next to the concrete.

          You’re just spending money to feel good.

    • dismalpedigree 11 minutes ago
      The gas is primarily used to generate electricity. Where do you suggest the electricity for their electrification comes from?
      • jimnotgym 2 minutes ago
        Mythical future technology it seems
    • eecc 24 minutes ago
      Don’t expect anything to be decided by this cabinet. Springtime elections are pretty certain IMHO
      • CalRobert 21 minutes ago
        Hopefully we get much better renewables support (and with it lower public transit fares...), fixes for the insane box 3 rules due to come in to effect, yimby reforms to let people actually build homes in cities, and the right to air conditioning enshrined in law...
  • pjc50 26 minutes ago
    > Rather than buy off the Groningers, the cabinet decided to give in to them

    This doesn't seem to have been tried. We have similar conversations about e.g. pylons for renewable infrastructure and, at even more heightened levels, data centers. It doesn't seem that bribing people to shut up - sorry, sharing the widespread economic benefits of a decision with those most affected - is on the table at all.

  • lukeify 16 minutes ago
    > Destroying the wells does not change the likelihood of additional earthquakes.

    Well, it does, because it reduces the chance of additional gas extraction in those areas—which was the goal of filling them with cement.

  • elric 14 minutes ago
    Without knowing anything about these gas wells, couldn't they be used for compressed air energy storage?
    • pjc50 8 minutes ago
      Well, the reservoirs are still full of gas.

      CAES is I think now no longer competitive with batteries, which are a much simpler setup and being widely, quietly, deployed.

  • ppasotti 25 minutes ago
    This article is so biased I can't even.
  • csomar 16 minutes ago
    > The remaining reserves, some 500 billion cubic metres, are worth around €200 billion at current wholesale prices – enough to pay every single resident of the province €150,000 as compensation and still have 110 billion euros.

    So... not enough to buy them homes in Amsterdam and move their factories/schools/jobs? Good thing the citizens fought this. The activity is not economical without seriously endangering your home. I'd bet that if you were willing to give them a good enough deal, most/many people will take it. But there is no good deal here. It's just a collection of wealth (gas) at the expense of the Groningeniens.

  • psychoslave 15 minutes ago
    €150,000 as compensation seems damn low if the biggest investment of median citizen is paying for a house taking far more than that.

    Still a waste of resources to sabotage pipes that could just as well serve other purposes.

  • nephihaha 30 minutes ago
    Is this to try and prevent subsidence and tremors? It would make sense in a country which is often beneath sea level.
    • pjc50 25 minutes ago
      It's specifically to prevent the wells being re-opened and thereby raise the cost of re-exploiting the field. Of course, it would always be possible to drill new wells.
    • boesboes 27 minutes ago
      I thought it was mostly to demonstrate that they are REALLY never to be reopened, after many years of your typical lies and empty promises from politician.
  • deugtniet 21 minutes ago
    The writer of this hasn't even talked to any of the local population who have been subjected to these earthquakes that destroys the local populations' houses.

    Historically, the Dutch government has done extremely little to compensate the Groningers' damage. The Dutch are considered a bad example with regards to how the government is handling the proceeds of fossil fuels. So subjecting anyone to another round of house-destroying earthquakes is surely going to be well compensated this time. /s

    • dismalpedigree 8 minutes ago
      The point of the article is to not let the “loser” minority overrule the needs of the majority. On the one hand, greater good. On the other hand, i sympathize with the “losers” who are effectively suffering unjust taking.
  • aaron695 2 minutes ago
    [dead]