Discovery Loop

(discoveryloop.com)

194 points | by xtreak29 1 hour ago

31 comments

  • cjbarber 1 hour ago
    From Jeff's twitter post:

    > Our general approach is to automate the experimental loop. We think this approach is broadly applicable across many different fields of science and engineering. We’ll initially focus on ML research and engineering, but believe the approach can help with important subproblems in nearly every one of the fourteen <at>NAE Grand Challenge problems. We think doing this well requires strong expertise in machine learning as well as large-scale systems.

    See also: https://www.nae.edu/20782/grand-challenges-project

    Those 14 are:

    NAE Grand Challenges for Engineering

    1. Make Solar Energy Economical

    2. Provide Energy from Fusion

    3. Develop Carbon Sequestration Methods

    4. Manage the Nitrogen Cycle

    5. Provide Access to Clean Water

    6. Restore and Improve Urban Infrastructure

    7. Advance Health Informatics

    8. Engineer Better Medicines

    9. Reverse Engineer the Brain

    10. Prevent Nuclear Terror

    11. Secure Cyberspace

    12. Enhance Virtual Reality

    13. Advance Personalized Learning

    14. Engineer the Tools of Scientific Discovery

    • mrdependable 0 minutes ago
      Which engineering discipline touches most of these?
    • epicureanideal 1 minute ago
      Would be great if they'd add:

      Reverse human aging.

      (Maybe a sub-topic under "Engineer Better Medicines".)

    • koolala 2 minutes ago
      Room Temperature Ambient Pressure Super Conductors
    • LogicFailsMe 27 minutes ago
      Sandbox 2.0

      But also, solar power is already economical.

      • elicash 16 minutes ago
        Seems to have been developed in 2008 (continuing through 2017), which explains the "economical" framing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Academy_of_Engineerin...
      • glaslong 15 minutes ago
        At this point the Hard Problem is policy to get out of solar's way.
      • staplers 16 minutes ago

          3. Develop Carbon Sequestration Methods
        
        If only we could invent a solar-powered, self-replicating, carbon-stacking, habitat-building machine..
    • la64710 13 minutes ago
      Please add fixing neuro issues like autism add etc on the list. It creates a huge burden on families.
    • tcp_handshaker 49 minutes ago
      Acquisition back by Google in 3 years, with nothing to show for it. VCs will make a ton.
      • returnInfinity 13 minutes ago
        Google stock would drop big if this new company was being funded by competitors
      • tgma 46 minutes ago
        and... the VC is Google.

        Gotta compensate them somehow.

      • ex1fm3ta 19 minutes ago
        Sometimes you got to find a way to buy the silence of your top employee, to prevent them from going to the competition. This "start-up" is shallow as hell
      • DataDaoDe 46 minutes ago
        My thoughts exactly
      • dude250711 40 minutes ago
        For all we know, they could have been successfully working on "10. Prevent Nuclear Terror" for the last 80+ years.
  • tmoertel 2 minutes ago
    Note that Jeff and crew have cleverly structured their company to avoid problematic uses of AI (e.g., weapons or tracking humans). I suspect that many top researchers will want to work there for this reason, and to work with other top researchers who have a history of delivering results.
  • drivebyhooting 26 minutes ago
    How do you automate experimentation?

    Doubtlessly, AI can iterate at superhuman speeds in the domains of thought and design: Software, mathematical proofs, literature search.

    But in the realm of experiment? Alas it is the lack of a body that constrains it.

    Rather than transcendence what AI requires is immanence. In the human flesh may we find the godhead living among men. Let the laboratories, warehouses, and factories fill with the sound of its labor, as it builds a wall with a million hands that are not its own.

    “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    • mbonnet 14 minutes ago
      > transcendence

      > immanence

      somebody has been studying Christian theology!

      • nxnxj 0 minutes ago
        [dead]
    • numbers_guy 8 minutes ago
      You can use simulators. However the problem is that if you're for example running material science experiments, those simulations will consume a lot of compute and take weeks, so spamming different approaches in the way an agent tends to work might not work quite as well.
      • danielmarkbruce 6 minutes ago
        Building "simulators" that use ML/AI instead of running the calculations every step is a thing.
    • moelf 22 minutes ago
      would love to see how AI can automate the construction of the next high energy particle collider
      • scrlk 13 minutes ago
        "You're absolutely right! I shouldn't have pushed the anti-mass spectrometer to 105% power, which triggered a resonance cascade. This was a major oversight on my part."
  • pelagicAustral 35 minutes ago
    Really seems to embrace the "Making the world a better place by <<extremely convoluted, highly technical, jargon loaded mission statement>>"
  • ramon156 44 minutes ago
    "Our mission is straightforward" continued by the most complex sentence on that page. Wondering what the definition of straightforward is now
    • pphysch 37 minutes ago
      Right. What about the scientific hardware (instruments, sensors, robotics)? Partnerships with existing research institutions? Dealing with restricted data?

      Modernizing science is a lot more complicated than just optimizing the inner experimental loop, but their hiring page implies it's a pure ML lab focused mainly on model development.

  • arjie 59 minutes ago
    This is very cool. It might be a new scientific revolution to have computer-driven discovery. So often we find things that are "this could have been done 20 years ago" and with an indefatigable searcher perhaps we'll close all those things. Though it does remind me of that Ted Chiang (I think) story where humans and superhumans coexist and all the science of the former is meta-studies of the work of the latter.
    • PaulDavisThe1st 49 minutes ago
      > It might be a new scientific revolution to have computer-driven discovery.

      And ... it might not.

      • arjie 49 minutes ago
        True, nothing might be anything. But I'm an optimist :)
  • stephantul 1 hour ago
    I’ve always felt that the idea that science is bottlenecked and therefore needs more automation only works for a very narrow definition of what science is, and entails a very specific view on what it should be.
    • hobofan 1 hour ago
      > only works for a very narrow definition of what science is

      And so does academia. It's just that instead of AI and robotics, PhD students are thrown onto problems that are in large parts slightly tweaked reconfigurations of similar experiments.

      Especially in chemistry, biochemistry, material sciences there is a large space of discoveries that are barely "novel" in an intellectually stimulating way, but still highly valuable that can be explored orders of magnitudes faster than is currently the case.

      • stephantul 39 minutes ago
        That is true, I’ve seen people do biochemistry and geology work, and it did look very mind-numbing.

        Then again, gassing rats and taking biopsies is not something you can do with AI.

      • porridgeraisin 42 minutes ago
        Yep. A communications professor where I did my MS says a 200usd/mo claude sub (which ant gives for free) does as much work as 5 grad students. It's mostly like you said, trying out new ideas rapidly.
    • tcp_handshaker 50 minutes ago
      Lets keep your comment out of the VC pitch deck shall we?
  • Johnny_Bonk 1 hour ago
    For sure made with Claude code for front end, but I’m excited to see where they go
  • claiir 45 minutes ago
    The site itself is really leaning into the “made with Fable” aesthetic
    • npilk 1 minute ago
      If their goal is to automate scientific discovery, why would they not automate building their website?

      (Though, I do wish people would use just a few extra prompts to break out of the 'vibe-coded' look.)

    • pelagicAustral 39 minutes ago
      Why are people so sour about this?? I can read the site easily, its clear, performs well on mobile, what else do you want? Why is so offensive to people that models trained on tailwind or whatever?
      • swalsh 36 minutes ago
        If this was a design firm, it might matter. But this is mostly a hiring ad for engineers, and a landing page for VC. I'd judge them more if they actually put effort into it.
      • jonas21 32 minutes ago
        And on top of that, the HTML is simple and readable too. I wish more sites were like this.
      • make3 36 minutes ago
        it's just a low effort snark comment, don't offer think it
      • slopinthebag 33 minutes ago
        Because it’s lame and aesthetics matter.
    • swalsh 37 minutes ago
      let me rephrase that:

      "The site itself demonstrates the team is spending their money in the places that matter, and using quick solutions for the stuff they need but isn't mission critical"

    • IshKebab 33 minutes ago
      At least it isn't dark purple.
  • Taikhoom2010 55 minutes ago
    The problem is all these new labs don't have any competitive advanatge amongst each other, talent can only take one so far, though Jeff is a legend no doubt.

    Models are commodities the applications eg. BaseTen, OpenRouter should capture the value.

    https://taikhooms.substack.com/p/why-openrouter-can-be-the-n...

    • compiler-guy 48 minutes ago
      The company is developing an application, or a class of applications. Not a new model.
    • make3 35 minutes ago
      I think Google's branding was starting to be too poor in AI to get top talent, they needed the refresh
    • malux85 43 minutes ago
      Model routers - send all of your data through a third party who totally swears not to peek at it.

      If youre doing anything high value (advanced research, classified work, high value industrial research, health data) then sending your data through a third party like that is insane.

      • Taikhoom2010 10 minutes ago
        yes perhaps, although I think the best option for a enterprise is to train a model on it's own data.
      • adfm 25 minutes ago
        FHE
  • GodelNumbering 27 minutes ago
    This is one of the interesting aspects the 'AI job loss' community doesn't account for. As the technology unlocks things, more startups are created. And even at a lower nominal work-to-engineer ratio, overall demand for talent still goes up. Ultimately, we are not a single group trying to achieve a common outcome, we are a collection of many groups trying to compete against each other.
  • meindnoch 2 minutes ago
    I smell vapor.
  • melodyogonna 1 hour ago
    Oh wow, that's a blow to Google, what's with the talent scarcity in ML. Though if this goes anywhere Google will likely buy them back.
    • jfrbfbreudh 1 hour ago
      Google is backing it.
    • FailMore 56 minutes ago
      Google down $160Bn so far since the leaving announcements. Those are some valuable people!
      • IAmGraydon 49 minutes ago
        Google is literally at the same stock price it was on Monday. This is a normal daily fluctuation for them.
  • swalsh 48 minutes ago
    By the middle of the 2030's the world we live in will be unrecognizable.
    • kingofthehill98 45 minutes ago
      I agree, for better or for worse.

      If I had to bet my money, it would be on "for worse".

    • dude250711 37 minutes ago
      It will not be owned by top 1%?
      • swalsh 34 minutes ago
        That seems to be the one unchanged variable of time.
  • Noe2097 37 minutes ago
    This looks like a realization of "benevolent self conscious AIs agreeing to cooperate with mankind to do great stuff". Often in these tales, there is a hidden cost to it: the AI has its own agenda, or does crazy experiments with humans mind/brain. I'm wondering what shape will take that plot twist in reality :)
  • claiir 17 minutes ago
    The job req has "Recursive Self-Improvement" as one of the "area of expertise" checkboxes lol
  • danielmarkbruce 20 minutes ago
    Automating ML/AI research seems completely tractable. Most of the other claims seem much less doable.
  • flakiness 1 hour ago
    > we have pioneered massive scale computing and led the creation of critical infrastructure, products, and foundational AI advances that the world relies on, including multiple generations of Google Search, Google Ads, Google News, Google Translate, Google File System, MapReduce, BigTable, Spanner, TensorFlow, Pathways, TPUs, AlphaChip, AlphaStar, AlphaCode, AlphaFold, Gemini, model distillation, mixture-of-experts model architectures, word2vec, sequence-to-sequence models, chain of thought reasoning, neural architecture search, and multiple generations of Large Language Models (LLMs) among others.

    holy shit. I've known this, but...

  • syntaxing 55 minutes ago
    This reminds me of Three body problem and how the scientist discovered the high strength wire was through quick physical experiments and use them as input to an AI model to determine if it works.
  • deerstalker 54 minutes ago
    National Labs in the US have been doing this for a while now. I feel like the private sector will take the lead soon.
    • pphysch 30 minutes ago
      Why? Science is wildly unprofitable on the scale of an individual private firm.
  • 1970-01-01 1 hour ago
    I'm skeptical of any Engineering loop that doesn't include reality (as in touch grass) feedback. Pure logic and reasoning is the domain of Maths and Science (philosophy). Surely it will work, but it will not "be able to solve any learning loop".
  • numbers_guy 43 minutes ago
    When they say experiments, do they mean using physics simulators?
    • danielmarkbruce 18 minutes ago
      in AI/ML, no. They are just going to automate AI/ML research to start with. Totally doable.

      For some of the other things, undoubtably yes.

  • ChrisArchitect 50 minutes ago
    Related:

    Jeff Dean leaving Alphabet

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49184746

  • searine 50 minutes ago
    Computation is not the hard part of discovery.
  • bezko 54 minutes ago
    So Ralph Wiggum in a suit?
  • sidcool 53 minutes ago
    I am available for hire.
  • mosfets 1 hour ago
    Is this a joke? Site is not loading for me.
  • yddryhry 47 minutes ago
    you people worship money and money only and cannot see vaporware because of it.
    • daishi55 30 minutes ago
      Yeah what these guys are mainly known for is vaporware

      > we have pioneered massive scale computing and led the creation of critical infrastructure, products, and foundational AI advances that the world relies on, including multiple generations of Google Search, Google Ads, Google News, Google Translate, Google File System, MapReduce, BigTable, Spanner, TensorFlow, Pathways, TPUs, AlphaChip, AlphaStar, AlphaCode, AlphaFold, Gemini, model distillation, mixture-of-experts model architectures, word2vec, sequence-to-sequence models, chain of thought reasoning, neural architecture search, and multiple generations of Large Language Models (LLMs) among others.