16 comments

  • anon84873628 1 hour ago
    Sounds like the Canadian Food Inspection agency screwed the town out of spite. Like they had a target on Ngo's back. Anyone have more details? From the linked Eater article:

    >He suggests that a prior conflict with the CFIA over product labeling motivated them to close the factory before the inspection began. Ngo claims that he had been vocal about their interactions, and speculates “if they shut [us] down, nobody makes any complaints anymore.”

    >After the government-run lab found Ngo’s product to be safe, he went on to win a court case and an appeal against the government. Even after those victories, the CFIA moved to restrict the sales of his product to the province of Newfoundland. “If I sell there, who will use my product?” Ngo says, pointing out the small population of Newfoundland and its non-existent Vietnamese community. “I could sell maybe one or two cases a month[...] we can’t survive.” The CFIA declined to comment, citing the amount of time that has passed since filing its initial complaint.

    They could have stopped production in the moldy factory but allowed sale of the remaining product.

    • rawgabbit 1 hour ago
      I don’t think he was targeted but he met the reality of bureaucracy. One agency actually funded him and approved the building and allowed him to operate for 11 years. Another agency said you can’t operate or sell because of the growing mold. Another agency said dump the forbidden fish sauce in the sewer. Another agency said to bury it.
      • busterarm 25 minutes ago
        Canadian bureaucracy around food is at times insane (and vaguely racist). Just look up '1985 Jamaican patty wars'.
        • gruez 8 minutes ago
          From cbc:

          >In 1985, the Canadian government tried to stop Jamaican bakeries and restaurants from using the term "beef patty."

          >At the time, Canada's Meat Inspection Act classified a beef patty as what goes in a hamburger. It could contain only meat and seasoning and it couldn't be encased in dough or a crust. Therefore, a Jamaican patty — widely known as a flaky pastry with a spiced beef filling — didn't meet the criteria.

          That actually vaguely seems reasonable? Especially in contexts where there's only text to go by (eg. on a menu), people might actually be confused.

          • imajoredinecon 2 minutes ago
            It’s not that it’s unreasonable to think the word “patty” is ambiguous —it’s that it’s unreasonable to spend tax dollars on saving people from that ambiguity
    • ddevnyc 28 minutes ago
      Smelly, rotting fish sauce that needs to be handled in hazmat suits? In Europe that's called a "condiment".
  • comrade1234 1 hour ago
    There's a farmers market here in Zurich where some Italians drive up and sell Italian products like cheeses, sausages, etc. but one thing I buy from them I've never seen anywhere else - they are rotten salted anchovies packed with peppercorns. Stink super bad and are falling apart but when you're making a sauce you drop one in and the anchovy dissolves and delivers tons of umami - glutamates - and you no longer smell the rotten fish smell. I'm sure professional chefs must know about these.

    I keep them in baggies in the freezer so that they don't stink up the fridge.

    • rob74 1 hour ago
      I mean, instead of investing so much effort to get glutamate into your food, why not use MSG directly? Sounds like much less hassle? Reminds me of the time when Big Food over here in Germany replaced MSG with "yeast extract" so they could claim that their foods contained no artificial flavor enhancers (although the yeast extract also contains a lot of glutamate).
      • azath92 35 minutes ago
        Its also a common misconception that all glutamates are MSG (thats one salt of glutamate) and that all umami compounds are simple glutamate salts.

        So while MSG is an excellent "neutral" umami ingredient, fermented products like this have a whole host of complex flavors that are often very desirable beyond just their glutamate salt.

      • PetitPrince 1 hour ago
        Because people like the fish flavor ?

        Same reason we use tomato paste instead of a MSG + food coloring or parmesan instead of MSG + some protein I would say.

      • pluralmonad 1 hour ago
        Like labelling bacon nitrate free while also including celery seed something-or-another that is... Just nitrates.
        • d-e-r-e-k 35 minutes ago
          While your comment is true, it is reductive. While celery seed does in fact contain nitrates which are turned into nitrites, it’s the next step that’s important. Unlike synthetic sodium nitrite, celery seeds contain vitamin C which acts as an antioxidant that converts the nitrites into harmless nitric oxide whereas the synthetic sodium nitrite is converted into harmful nitrosamines.

          The subtle differences in how our bodies process synthetic vs natural ingredients significantly impacts our bodies and health.

          • gruez 24 minutes ago
            >celery seeds contain vitamin C which acts as an antioxidant that converts the nitrites into harmless nitric oxide whereas the synthetic sodium nitrite is converted into harmful nitrosamines.

            This just sounds like post hoc justification. There's hardly any vitamin C in celery seeds[1][2]. Broccoli has 5x the vitamin C per 100g, despite much of it being water. Moreover, if the point is that vitamin C protects against nitrates, why not add vitamin C directly, rather than doing it in a roundabout way by adding celery seeds which also happen to contain vitamin C?

            [1] https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/food-details/170920/nutrients

            [2] https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/food-details/170379/nutrients

        • gruez 35 minutes ago
          They can't actually label it "nitrate free", only a superficially sounding term like "no nitrates added", with the hope that people (like you) think it's the same as "nitrate free".
    • dfxm12 1 hour ago
      Rotten? Do you have any more info about this product, even a name? Salted anchovies are common in at least Spain, Italy & Portugal (and you usually rinse off the excess salt and optionally store them in olive oil for a while before consuming), but I've never seen a "rotten" anchovy...
      • comrade1234 37 minutes ago
        Instead of "rotten" I should have probably used "fermented". They're dark brown, not dry but not in a liquid, individual anchovies that are starting to fall apart. They smell like a stronger version of fish sauce.
        • actionfromafar 21 minutes ago
          This but also with pepper corns?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23QDS0xclw4

          • comrade1234 9 minutes ago
            Yeah, rough-ground peppercorn.
        • wahnfrieden 21 minutes ago
          Why not just use colatura di alici?
          • dfxm12 10 minutes ago
            If it's the salted anchovies I'm thinking of what I'm thinking of (like in the yt video in your sibling comment), salted anchovies are a lot cheaper and more versatile (the downside is that more processing is required on your end). Colatura is great in sauces, but you need whole anchovy filets to make a gilda.
  • bhouston 1 hour ago
    Isn't the ocean filled with salt and already knows how to biologically degrade fish? I sort of think that you could deposit this at sea somehow, just need to spread it out sufficiently.

    I am sure I am overlooking something that would lead to an unintended ecological disaster.

    • arethuza 1 hour ago
      "just need to spread it out sufficiently"

      Use a crop duster type aircraft - what could go wrong?

      Edit: Growing up in a fishing village I'm fully aware of the potential for WMD level stench that the fishing industry is capable of generating.

    • wbl 33 minutes ago
      "The blast blasted blubber beyond all believable bounds" - prior failure of intuitively appealing disposal option.
  • Symbiote 1 hour ago
    Since this is just salted, fermented fish, which the scientist in the article claims he would like to taste, why does it need to be buried in plastic? Why not slowly pour it into a sewer, over the course of several months?
    • anon84873628 1 hour ago
      From the linked Eater article:

      >Perhaps the most promising and most discouraging event for the factory happened in 2016. That year, the provincial government approved a cleanup plan, and a private company began the process. But the cleanup was halted soon after it started when it became clear that the contractors were dumping several dozen vats of rotten fish sauce directly into the ocean. According to Ryan, the provincial government ordered the factory’s drains to be blocked to prevent any more sauce from seeping into the ocean.

      https://www.eater.com/2019/5/23/18634704/st-marys-irish-loop...

      I think dumping it slowly would be better than a hazardous waste landfill, but government bureaucracy is not capable of handling this situation.

      • Tepix 1 hour ago
        Put it on a boat, navigate to an area with a current away from any land and then slowly release it
        • Waterluvian 1 hour ago
          Take it outside the environment.
          • thataccount 45 minutes ago
            Or dump it in a volcano.
            • gadders 9 minutes ago
              Shoot it into space.
          • rekoil 1 hour ago
            What's out there?
            • amiga386 49 minutes ago

                  Nothing's out there!
              
              Well there must be something out there.

                  There is nothing out there - all there is is sea and birds and fish.
              
              And?

                  And 20,000 tons of crude oil.
              
              And what else?

                  And fire.
              
              And anything else?

                  And the part of the ship that the front fell off.
            • Lalabadie 1 hour ago
              More environment
    • sneak 1 hour ago
      Sewers go places, and it is nearly a million liters of extremely concentrated stinky. If you do this, you take a single location source of stinky and smear it over a much larger set of locations that will then ALL be extremely stinky, in a way that isn’t easily cleaned with water as the fats and oils (also extremely stinky!) are of course not soluble.
      • alwa 12 minutes ago
        So, but… where do most fish go when they die?
      • anon84873628 1 hour ago
        Instead the stinky will be spread through time.

        The solution to pollution is dilution, and the ocean would metabolize it away fairly quickly.

        • cwal37 46 minutes ago
          The solution to pollution is dilution was a philosophy prior to modern environmental protection laws, which were a reaction to the fact that we were absolutely destroying all kinds of ecosystems, even when we thought we were just diluting toxins down to nothing.
          • gruez 18 minutes ago
            That just sounds like it's a knee jerk reaction from regulators. For decades their reaction to pollution was "yeah just dump it in the ocean", then we figured out it was bad. So now the pendulum swung the other way where we can't dump anything in the ocean, even if it's probably benign, because if it turns out to be not benign, it'll super bad on you. "You did what? Approved dumping pollutants in the ocean? Haven't you learned anything from us dumping radioactive super-mustard gas in the oceans decades ago?" Better to play it safe. After all, you're not picking up the tab.
          • wang_li 20 minutes ago
            This stuff is barely pollution. Everything there is a natural part of the environment and biological processes. Literally the only issue here is the concentration of it. Dumping it in the ocean is an ideal course of action. Failing that it should be dumped out in the wilderness, not in bags, but just on the ground. It may have a short-term change in the local environment, but long term it's fertilizer.

            The risk of dumping it in the ocean is that some asshole will see that happening and think "gosh, i should slip my barrels of hazardous toxic waste in with that dumping activity."

          • buellerbueller 28 minutes ago
            Is fish sauce a toxin?
      • dylan604 47 minutes ago
        > as the fats and oils (also extremely stinky!) are of course not soluble.

        Just use a lot of Dawn dish detergent

      • chuckadams 1 hour ago
        I'd say dump it in the ocean, but I don't guess any boat will take it. Still, sounds like they're going to make the area around the landfill stink forever.
  • whycome 47 minutes ago
    It’s organic solids. Just get it to the ocean. It’s not like it’s crude oil or volatile chemicals.
    • kurthr 39 minutes ago
      The solution to pollution is dilution.

      It might not always be true, but it is here.

    • aaron695 7 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • blitzar 34 minutes ago
    They should blow it up like they blew up that whale carcass. Nothing could possibly go wrong.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34

  • gadders 11 minutes ago
    Can you die from a umami overdose?
  • Y-bar 1 hour ago
    I wanted to crack a joke that Swede's do like their stinky fermented fish, why not sell to them… But I figured why not see if other cultures might also like it, and was floored with how many there were: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermented_fish
  • Maxion 20 minutes ago
    Why on earth are they not composting it, but instead putting in a landfill and locking it up? What a dumb idea.
    • FuriouslyAdrift 9 minutes ago
      Salt... it has lots and lots of salt in it. It's been sitting for 20+ years. It isn't going to "compost" any more than it already has.
    • namibj 15 minutes ago
      Salty.
    • llbbdd 10 minutes ago
      I don't have much familiarity with composting or fish sauce production, but wouldn't the high salt content make it a bad fertilizer?
  • cuechan 1 hour ago
    Slightly Offtopic but the voice in the embedded youtube Video is so sounds so unnatural and creepy. I guess its AI generated and no one bothered to check the end result.
  • jonhohle 1 hour ago
    > But this person who ended up becoming my wife, she's like, "I love fish sauce. I need more of it in my life."

    Possibly the least expected ending to that article, and very heartwarming.

  • wxw 1 hour ago
    > I would 100 percent taste the forbidden fish sauce. I would do it for science. My wife would kill me if I'm not already dead.

    Count me in.

  • vitorfblima 29 minutes ago
    Can you actually taste the goo and not get killed instantly? This sounds so crazy to me. lol
  • fred_is_fred 33 minutes ago
    I am surprised that after this long the smell isn't gone. If one were to open all these tanks and spread it around on the ground in a layer, wouldn't it dissipate after a few months when the bacteria finish up?
  • moralestapia 33 minutes ago
    Hmm, curious, could there be any use for this substance?

    Fertilizer or something?

    • compass_copium 26 minutes ago
      With all the salt, you'd turn your fields into the next Carthage.
  • jt2190 1 hour ago
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/st-mary...

    tl;dr

    After 20 years of legal battles abandoned factory containing tanks of rotting fish in St Mary’s NL is getting cleaned up, paid for by provincial taxpayers.

    • Grazester 1 hour ago
      After 20 years this hasn't completely rotted and scentless? I need to read the article.
      • gus_massa 54 minutes ago
        If the goo is too salty, probably bacterias can grow enough to eat the cause of the bad smell, in particular https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylamine

        From a random google search I got this report https://uvadoc.uva.es/bitstream/handle/10324/18877/TFG-I-468... (mostly in Spanish, with an English abstract). It looks serious and as far as I understand it makes sense. They recommend to add iodine to burn/oxidize the trimethylamine or use bacteria and bubbles or air/oxygen, or a mix or bacteria+algae+light that produces the oxygen inside the mix. It looks like without an active source of oxidizer, the mix will be stinky for years.