As someone born and brought up in India, I'm a little conflicted about this.
Of course it is true that a lot of Indians have no civic sense, and will spit, litter, and generally make a noisy nuisance of themselves in this quiet village. On the surface it seems to be a great story about that nuisance being kicked out one day of the week.
At the same time, this is part of...India. It seems questionable legally, and also morally, to just kick out people from the rest of the country and even the state on a a specific day. Your village benefits to some degree from their taxes. How would it be if the villagers were locked into their village for that day and not allowed to travel outside?
Is the solution to a lack of civic sense really just to make more and more of these clean enclaves? Will they finally end up expanding and covering more of the country? I would honestly feel better about this if the entire state of Meghalaya had some kind of cleanliness drive and a tourist tax.
I don't have any easy solutions. If I did, they would have occurred to someone in India and it would be a lot cleaner by now.
> In a country known for its lack of sanitation, this is no small feat. But in Mawlynnong, children are taught to tidy up from a young age, with many taking to the streets each morning before school to sweep the town of dead leaves and empty rubbish bins. Villagers see to the disposal of biodegradables and take pride in public landscaping.
This is kind of fascinating to me because the few times I visited India I was completely gobsmacked by the insane levels of trash and pollution such that I never wanted to return. Like Gurugram reminded me of some type of ecological disaster dystopia out of Blade Runner. So I was particularly glad to see this story was about an Indian village and not one of the usual "amazingly clean Asian city" suspects, e.g. Singapore or somewhere in Japan.
I've read that Japan had some crazy pollution and littering until regulations and campaigns in the 70s. Alright, I'll admit, I saw it on a Youtube short [1].
There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on the change on the Internet (at least not the English Internet), but this Japanese guy's anecdotes seem to corroborate it [2]. It makes sense, a lot of countries started taking pollution and littering more seriously around the 70s. It looks like that's when Japan started regulating it seriously [3]:
> from 24 November to 18 December 1970, 14 pollution control bills were passed into law [...] overnight, Japan was transformed from a country with meagre environmental regulations, to one of the strictest in the OECD.
Yes, on one hand its fascinating, on other its about impossible before end of universe that it would be possible to apply India wide. Right on with Gurugram observation. The latest government way to fix all issue is to change name of the place to something from "glorious Indian past".
In terms of actually responding to eco-disaster I don't think people are there yet to see error and mend their ways. I do not expect this to change at least for next couple of decades.
> Like Gurugram reminded me of some type of ecological disaster dystopia out of Blade Runner
That's because of zoning. Much of Gurgaon isn't zoned as a municipality but as villages, which means there is no unified municipal government in vast swathes of the city. This is the same issue with Bangalore.
Other large Indian cities (eg. Pune, Ahmedabad, Chandigarh, Chennai, Hyderabad, etc) are nowhere near as bad
> So I was particularly glad to see this story was about an Indian village
My ancestral family is from village and small towns, and counterintuitively (edit: for people who do not know India) they tend to be much cleaner because they have more formally defined municipal and local governments.
Of course, this depends state to state, like everything else in India.
Edit: quick explaination of local government in India
Local government in India is heavily dependent on whether your block is zoned as "rural", "urban", "agricultural", or "industrial".
In the first generation of megacities like Bangalore and Delhi NCR, zoning never actually got updated because a lot of urbanization happened before zoning caught up, and changing zoning could impact your tax burden, as agricultural income isn't taxed in India.
So if you are a landlord (eg.) running a backpacker hostel in Delhi, if your land was rezoned from agricultural to urban it would also be reassessed from a tax burden perspective so landlords have an incentive to fight rezoning tooth and nail.
In smaller towns and the newer generation of megacities (eg. Ahmedabad, Hyderabad) zoning was either more tightly enforced and local governments are more aligned becuase they are much more homogenous.
> My ancestral family is from village and small towns, and counterintuitively they tend to be much cleaner because they have more formally defined municipal and local governments.
Indian, and this is not counterintuitive to me at all. I have also seen this, really small rural villages with their tight local governments tend to be pretty clean.
Seems like quite the stretch just to blame it on zoning. Gurugram was particularly bad but the other places around New Delhi I visited weren't much better.
Much of Delhi isn't zoned as a city but as villages (in Delhi they are called Lal Doras) [0]. Most of the hostels and hotels backpackers stay in when visiting Delhi are located in these lal doras.
Additionally, the local government and the federal government have been at loggerheads for a decade because it's municipal government was ruled by the BJP but it's state government was ruled by the opposition (AAP), so both attempted to undermine the other.
Delhi NCR and Bangalore are two of the worst managed metropolitan areas in India from a local government perspective because of overlapping jurisdictions and extremely wonky zoning. Of course, those are the two Indian cities most HNers would end up.
I know statements like this mean well, but man it's so frustrating. It's the same thing as telling a person with depression to "just be happy".
If it were so simple this would've been solved nation wide by Modi's 2014 address.
Where does this education come from? Leaders, but leaders are product of their social environment. To create this change means to go against the norm meaning someone or a few have to break the trend. Then that belief has to take hold in others and THEN the real test begins. It has to be generational, the new generation, by yes, education, needs it to be truth as opposed to a new way. The old guard must die.
Only then will you "solve all social issues by education". Don't even get me started on scale. It works on a village or small country, but more? or a 2nd issue?
You hit the nail on the head. It's not that simple. I was born and raised in India and I have seen hordes of supposedly "educated" Indian people with degrees littering and making a nuisance of themselves; and seen a lot of Indians who didn't have a formal education be much more conscientious about cleanliness and such because their family raised them that way.
It's some combination of moral education, culture, science, and psychology. Even religion can play a role, especially in India where it's so important for a majority of the people.
Degrees doesn't mean someone was brought up with cleanliness as a value, that's not what they mean by "educated." It's education of taking care of your general area and environment, not general schooling.
More like, the education thus far was insufficient, not that it's not simple to just have education; it is that simple, but simple does not mean easy or without effort. Japan instills cleanliness from early schooling, that's what needs to be done in India too. Not just throwing up our hands and saying "it's not that simple."
It should be clear that this is about the stress that visiting Indians bring. And their trash.
But it also highlights how you need to restrict access to move up the value chain. Hordes of bus tourists who eat elsewhere or bring take away contribute little economically, you can sell some trinkets. People with a hotel booking are also likely to eat locally.
Venice faces a similar situation with cruise ships and Airbnbs raising the price of housing. They should be capping cruise ship numbers, and a weekend break would be good too.
> But it also highlights how you need to restrict access to move up the value chain. Hordes of bus tourists who eat elsewhere or bring take away contribute little economically, you can sell some trinkets. People with a hotel booking are also likely to eat locally.
I don't think this fits the story at all. They just want a day off. The rest of the week is unrestricted.
Its rooted in culture and how people are socialized to relate to public spaces and the people around them. Here’s Lee Kuan Yew talking about the same problem he faced in Singapore at first: https://medium.com/@barronqasem/the-moral-behind-lee-kuan-ye... (“The difficult part was getting the people to change their habits so that they behaved more like first world citizens, not like third world citizens spitting and littering all over the place.”).
I only really have experience with Americans and Bangladeshis, but in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling. I was talking with a law school professor once after class and dropped a diet coke bottle into the trash in front of her. Without missing a beat she reached into the trash bin to take it out and threw it into the recycling bin.
> in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling
I don't know about that. I've seen many a poorly sorted recycle bin in my life. Americans are definitely in the upper quartile, maybe even the upper decile, of the world as a whole. Among the developed world the country may be just about average.
I believe glass recycling is segregated by color in some countries in Europe. And they take that really seriously.
American recycling in a lot of major cities is single-stream - aka you put all recycling together and a central plant sorts it for you. More efficient, more accurate, and it encourages more people to recycle since it's extremely easy.
I've got a suspicion that it was more common a few decades ago. I saw a bit of that in China back in 2007 but I wouldn't be surprised if it's less of a thing now.
How do you reconcile you complaint about complaining about the tourist ban with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says people have the right to freedom of movement within the borders of each state?
Does that Declaration give you an inalienable right to do anything you please? I doubt it. As the old saying goes, your freedom stops where someone else’s freedom starts.
Or in Seinfeld speak, “we live in a society!!!”
Have to consider others not just oneself. That’s the price of freedom and being responsible about it.
What do you think that human rights rule is supposed to mean then? By your definition, the (more older) Chinese way of restricting mobility between provinces according to hukou would be OK because you can just bypass the forbidden provinces.
I'm talking about doublerabbit, not India. Doublerabbit apparently doesn't like human rights, which is his right, but it's possible he actually holds contradictory opinions and doesn't realize it.
Or what you and others might believe are human rights are not believed by them to be human rights. Human rights are not, in fact, universal, otherwise there would be no disagreement; and either way, no human right is endless and unlimited especially when it impinges on another's rights.
The new editorialised title is an improvement, given that most of HN's readership is probably not in the UK, especially not at time of writing: 0130 BST on a Tuesday.
On the contrary, my first thought upon reading the title was "I hope it's not just Japan again". No disrespect to Japan, but articles about Japanese tidiness are a dime a dozen.
Huh? South-asia is more than just india. Just like all of the other cardinal directions that refer to different geographical regions within asia. Why can't it be a part of Asia?
Wikipedia says that Budapest is home to one of the most populous Christian communities in Central Europe and it's considered to be one the most dirty places on Earth. Rome is often called Europe's dirtiest cities. Also Christian. Either Christ failed there, or religion has nothing to do with it.
One of the most dirty places on Earth. Surely this cannot be true. I’ve been to ten dirtier cities in India alone than that, let alone the rest of South and South East Asia. I suppose in some sense every city is one of the most dirty places on Earth even if you rank 500 on some list but it cannot be useful to think of it like this.
Of course it is true that a lot of Indians have no civic sense, and will spit, litter, and generally make a noisy nuisance of themselves in this quiet village. On the surface it seems to be a great story about that nuisance being kicked out one day of the week.
At the same time, this is part of...India. It seems questionable legally, and also morally, to just kick out people from the rest of the country and even the state on a a specific day. Your village benefits to some degree from their taxes. How would it be if the villagers were locked into their village for that day and not allowed to travel outside?
Is the solution to a lack of civic sense really just to make more and more of these clean enclaves? Will they finally end up expanding and covering more of the country? I would honestly feel better about this if the entire state of Meghalaya had some kind of cleanliness drive and a tourist tax.
I don't have any easy solutions. If I did, they would have occurred to someone in India and it would be a lot cleaner by now.
Did you read the article?
> Visitors who book guesthouse rooms in Mawlynnong through Saturday and Sunday are exempt from the Sunday ban.
Culture is real.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on the change on the Internet (at least not the English Internet), but this Japanese guy's anecdotes seem to corroborate it [2]. It makes sense, a lot of countries started taking pollution and littering more seriously around the 70s. It looks like that's when Japan started regulating it seriously [3]:
> from 24 November to 18 December 1970, 14 pollution control bills were passed into law [...] overnight, Japan was transformed from a country with meagre environmental regulations, to one of the strictest in the OECD.
1. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PP60G-lMiDA
2. https://tour-hiro.com/blog/culture/5721/
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_Diet
In terms of actually responding to eco-disaster I don't think people are there yet to see error and mend their ways. I do not expect this to change at least for next couple of decades.
That's because of zoning. Much of Gurgaon isn't zoned as a municipality but as villages, which means there is no unified municipal government in vast swathes of the city. This is the same issue with Bangalore.
Other large Indian cities (eg. Pune, Ahmedabad, Chandigarh, Chennai, Hyderabad, etc) are nowhere near as bad
> So I was particularly glad to see this story was about an Indian village
My ancestral family is from village and small towns, and counterintuitively (edit: for people who do not know India) they tend to be much cleaner because they have more formally defined municipal and local governments.
Of course, this depends state to state, like everything else in India.
Edit: quick explaination of local government in India
Local government in India is heavily dependent on whether your block is zoned as "rural", "urban", "agricultural", or "industrial".
In the first generation of megacities like Bangalore and Delhi NCR, zoning never actually got updated because a lot of urbanization happened before zoning caught up, and changing zoning could impact your tax burden, as agricultural income isn't taxed in India.
So if you are a landlord (eg.) running a backpacker hostel in Delhi, if your land was rezoned from agricultural to urban it would also be reassessed from a tax burden perspective so landlords have an incentive to fight rezoning tooth and nail.
In smaller towns and the newer generation of megacities (eg. Ahmedabad, Hyderabad) zoning was either more tightly enforced and local governments are more aligned becuase they are much more homogenous.
Indian, and this is not counterintuitive to me at all. I have also seen this, really small rural villages with their tight local governments tend to be pretty clean.
In essence, India had hidden urbanization occur [0], but zoning never caught up to it.
[0] - https://eacpm.gov.in/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/EAC-PM-Worki...
Additionally, the local government and the federal government have been at loggerheads for a decade because it's municipal government was ruled by the BJP but it's state government was ruled by the opposition (AAP), so both attempted to undermine the other.
Delhi NCR and Bangalore are two of the worst managed metropolitan areas in India from a local government perspective because of overlapping jurisdictions and extremely wonky zoning. Of course, those are the two Indian cities most HNers would end up.
[0] - https://theprint.in/ground-reports/lal-dora-villages-delhi-h...
This needs to be a thing everywhere. Education works to resolve most - if not all - social issues.
If it were so simple this would've been solved nation wide by Modi's 2014 address.
Where does this education come from? Leaders, but leaders are product of their social environment. To create this change means to go against the norm meaning someone or a few have to break the trend. Then that belief has to take hold in others and THEN the real test begins. It has to be generational, the new generation, by yes, education, needs it to be truth as opposed to a new way. The old guard must die.
Only then will you "solve all social issues by education". Don't even get me started on scale. It works on a village or small country, but more? or a 2nd issue?
It's some combination of moral education, culture, science, and psychology. Even religion can play a role, especially in India where it's so important for a majority of the people.
What? How is this supposed to work?
But it also highlights how you need to restrict access to move up the value chain. Hordes of bus tourists who eat elsewhere or bring take away contribute little economically, you can sell some trinkets. People with a hotel booking are also likely to eat locally.
Venice faces a similar situation with cruise ships and Airbnbs raising the price of housing. They should be capping cruise ship numbers, and a weekend break would be good too.
I don't think this fits the story at all. They just want a day off. The rest of the week is unrestricted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewing_gum_sales_ban_in_Singa...
> Some tourists have complained about the ban, saying it should have been implemented on a weekday instead
These should not be a thing. What is it that makes folk feel so entitled?
"Lack of litter bins"; isn't an excuse. I've seen folk stand next to a litter bin, light up and then throw the cigarettes end to the ground.
You're literally standing next to a litter bin!
It should be common sense not to spit nor to litter. Spitting is the worse and I see it all the time here in the UK.
I only really have experience with Americans and Bangladeshis, but in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling. I was talking with a law school professor once after class and dropped a diet coke bottle into the trash in front of her. Without missing a beat she reached into the trash bin to take it out and threw it into the recycling bin.
I don't know about that. I've seen many a poorly sorted recycle bin in my life. Americans are definitely in the upper quartile, maybe even the upper decile, of the world as a whole. Among the developed world the country may be just about average.
I believe glass recycling is segregated by color in some countries in Europe. And they take that really seriously.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-stream_recycling
I guess my bar is on the floor lol.
If the litter bin doesn’t have an ashtray (like most in the US), maybe they were worried about starting a trash fire?
In parts of Asia where people chew betel nut, of course that’s a different story -they put the old west custom of spitting tobacco chew to shame.
What the hell is wrong with people?
Or in Seinfeld speak, “we live in a society!!!”
Have to consider others not just oneself. That’s the price of freedom and being responsible about it.
The alternative is a nanny state or anarchy.
If the law ruled: "you may not traverse through the state on Sundays"; then one could argue that is a breach of human rights.
However, the last time I checked, detours exist. Enabling you to bypass a village that may be closed on Sundays.
If you're a tourist and a village says no, why can't you obey that, why does that upset you?
The actual content is about a self-proclaimed 'Asia's cleanest village' in India, banning Sunday visits from other domestic Indians.
Probably wouldn't be a popular story if this was revealed in the title.
Japan is Japan.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/world-dirtiest-cities-including-on...
https://dailynewshungary.com/budapest-dirtiest-city-tourists...
tourists feel it. It may be that the absolute worst places are the ones nobody goes to and writes home about.