I'd be more than willing to subscribe and support the project BUT, I need to address the elephant in the room: The reason why I'm against Kagi is the fact that they use Yandex(be it only for images according to their own words) and I'm sure as hell refusing to give a single cent to them. So I guess my question is: sources?
> For web search, Uruky currently integrates Mojeek, Marginalia, EUSP (Ecosia/Qwant) (only works with French, German, or English), Linkup, Serper, and Uruky Site Search.
> For image search, Uruky currently integrates Pixabay and Serper (image results).
But is Yandex government owned? What about Russians abroad that send money back home to their families, and a percentage of that ends up going via taxes to Putin? Are we boycotting all Russians everywhere globally?
Whataboutism at it's finest. But to answer the question: I'm perfectly fine with the vast majority of Americans and I've never had a single bad personal experience with Americans, on the contrary. And most importantly: 0 killed friends(first one dating back to 2009, ironically in the US), 0 death threats. Lot's of 0's if I go down that rabbit hole.
I see. To summarize, you believe all Russians are bad because a Russian person killed your friend and all Americans are good because no American people killed any of your friends?
What's wrong with Yandex? Is it quality of service being too low? Does the company have tracking records of shady practices, worst than what GAFAM are doing that make customer flee away?
I really like the idea and that it's eu-made a love it. A fee things I see with kagi which are useful and improvements:
- Hire a UI/UX person NOW! My parents and gf like using google and kagi because are easy to use.
- add the widgets like the football or the show the local store with the phone number asap. My gf is thinking about moving away from kagi because of this.
- the quick ai response is extremely useful.
- Indexing websites is super important. People doesnt know where to put the content in a website or how to make accessible. Many times i use google due to this fact.
- Make a family subscription.
- make it funny, easy to use and welcoming. The branding is SUPER important.
Good luck and I really wish you to succeed! Im paying for an account ;)
> Uruky is a private search engine focused on personalization
> - Indexing websites is super important. People doesnt know where to put the content in a website or how to make accessible. Many times i use google due to this fact.
Is there a way to build a search engine that doesn't involve either building or accessing a index somehow? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, is this for the website builders or for the users, who the "indexing of websites" is super important? The "people doesn't know" part sounds like it's for website authors, but the last part makes it sound like the context is search engine users.
Ok, so say they added their own website index then, how would that help with "People doesnt know where to put the content in a website or how to make accessible"?
- Ouch. We get a lot of love for our UI/UX, which I guess just goes to show taste is personal. If you have any particular points of friction, we'd love to hear about them.
- Only Serper allows for this, so we're very hesitant. If other providers allowed it, we could definitely consider it.
- We won't have Generative AI, sorry.
- Could you clarify?
- Check out the interview I gave The Privacy Dad, I explain the problems for something like that.
Seeing the point on UI/UX got me curious as well and from a brief look I don't quite see where it is coming from, but maybe they will expand on it. Regarding their point about relatives loving Google/Kagi for usability: If you don't already do that, I believe it can be pretty eye-opening to just place some "tech-illiterate" person in front of your product and check if/where they struggle. There were lots of situations where I saw people struggling with steps I stopped thinking about, just because I was more familiar with the software. And while I have nothing to do with UI/UX myself, I am pretty sure that kind of paper cut is what tends to block any kind of broad adoption.
I live in the EU and I use kagi, but I think you fail to understand why kagi is good and useful. In the end of the day I need a search engine to find stuff and kagi is better than google for the things I and my AI agents are searching for. If you don't get that no amount of better privacy is worth my time as a person as shit searches mean agents don't works so well a.k.a more expensive or my room becomes toastier for the agents that I run locally. (I can use it for boring personal searches, but I do 2/3 of these a day, so I am not paying 5€ for that)
Have you tried Uruky and found it to be lacking? Totally agree with you, but I don't see many people here saying they've had a bad experience with this. (I haven't used it)
Agreed. The noise in tech circles often gets founders to conflate ten different things into a product that no longer makes sense. “Eu made alternative to Kagi”? Cool, we need European search engines, sign me up. “Privacy is such a priority we’re looking to accept cash by mail”? Okay, you’re never gonna build a serious competitor, never mind.
Regarding UI/UX. One thing that immediately catches my as an Design Engineer (being over 7 years Product Designer before that) is that the site looks bland. Nothing that sticks. Also one UX caveat: you are using your accent-color for primary buttons like the sign-up as well as a display variant for text for the "PRIVATE SEARCH YOU CONTROL". The logo is not a strong one, lacks personality, the font choice is also a little "weird".
Just my two cents. But I am glad, that someone is creating an alternative in the EU. Hit me up, if you want to get more design opinions.
As much as I'd prefer a smaller, non-american operator (for most anything really), I'm extremely hesitant to pay directly for search.
For this service, the "just an ID as account" looks nice and private on the surface, but once you look at payment methods, it's 100% personally identifiable. If it's so privacy-focused - where's the payment option for transferring Monero?
As for the code - don't get me started. Source available? NDAs?
We're working towards accepting cash by mail in a month or two, and regarding cryptocurrencies, we've been trying to reach out to proxysto.re unsuccessfully for that. If you know of a similar option, we'd love to hear about it!
If the goal truly is privacy, and that's why you're adding cryptocurrency options, then adding a middleman like "proxysto.re" or any other, then you're not giving users the privacy you say you want to give. You really need to handle that on your end, if that's something you want to offer for the purpose of privacy.
Take a look at how Mullvad implemented it, which I guess is where you got the "cash in a letter" method from, they also handle cryptocurrencies by themselves for exactly this reason, there is no way for you to actually be able to fulfill the privacy promise otherwise.
Privacy Pass would also be a good option. You can use it with Kagi, where you’ll have cryptographic tokens that you can use for searches without them being linked to your account. Even if you use a non-anonymous payment method, you could still use the service without leaving a trace.
Kagi is also a meta search engine. The only Kagi-owned index is Teclis, which is very small and really only indexes RSS feeds of small sites. The Kagi API supplements its Teclis results with additional results from Marginalia.
It would be nice to have more search indexes available though, especially via APIs.
I wish Kagi was a search index, back when I was a Kagi subscriber that's what I hoped my funds were going towards building.
Good question! We also have Uruky Site Search, our own index, which is quite tiny at the moment, but we hope to grow, eventually. Kagi's own index is Teclis, which is one of their smaller providers as well.
If you are building out your own index, might you consider offering it as an API via pre-paid credits (ala Mojeek, Kagi Teclis?)
I'm only paying Mojeek about $10 - $20 per year in API for my personal metasearch, so I guess this is a terrible market to enter ;) But I'd genuinely be interested, especially if the money is going towards building an index.
Uruky does exactly that (it has an API and any searches fund the search providers directly). If you want to _exclusively_ use Uruky Site Search (our index), though, that'd be impossible as it's too small to be used as an exclusive provider. Probably in the future that'll be possible, though.
I'd recommend you look into any of our other search providers if you just want the API search!
I think it could help to maybe allow 10 searches free (without logging in) just for someone to see what the UI is like or show an example of the results page. It adds a bit of friction for someone to have to make an account and pay just to test the product.
Kagi lets you test it offline (go incognito and try)
"
Kagi Search is funded by members, not advertisers: built to find what you need, not sell your attention.
Try 50 free searches, and if you love it, sign up for 100 more before choosing a plan.
Searches used
"
Thanks for the suggestion! That would mean we'd have to count searches, which we don't want to do. With the 2h free trial via proof-of-work captcha it should allow you for much more than that! I know the FAQ for that is outdated! I'll update it later today with a new date filter.
To be clear, you don't need to top up (only click the link or try a search) _and_ do the captcha. You can _either_ top up for a month, _or_ do the proof-of-work captcha (should just be clicking a checkbox and giving it a few seconds).
The reason for the higher barrier of entry is bots/abuse. Up until a few weeks ago we didn't even have the captcha option. Without any kind of identification, it's impossible to prevent automated/bot signups, and they can abuse the system to oblivion.
I understand that's not ideal, though I hope it still makes sense!
You may want to clarify that in your FAQ, which states this in the very first entry:
> Unfortunately, due to the fact it's too costly to properly avoid bots and other automated tools from abusing our service, we don't offer a free trial.
Argh, stale docs! Thanks for the notice, I'll push that fix in the next update later today (currently in the middle of adding an optional date filter).
To create an account you only need to click a link (so the account number can be randomly generated for you), not provide any information. I understand if that's not good enough for you, though.
As far as I can tell, Kagi also requires you to create an account before you can try it out. You can of course disagree with that practice, but it is not like Uruky is requiring something far out of the ordinary.
As a search/metasearch developer, I can heavily recommend Uruky. It is by far the best third party search alternative in terms of how they approach privacy and transparency. Keep up the good work Bruno! <3
It doesn't do great on recent events it seems. The amusement park Walibi Belgium recently announced a company called RMC is doing a makeover of their wooden roller coaster, so I did a search for "walibi belgium rmc", and it found one very out-of-date article about earlier rumours, and a bunch of less relevant stuff.
Thanks! I'm currently in the middle of building a date filter I expect to launch later today.
Still, was this using Mojeek or EUSP? Have you tried Linkup or Serper for those kinds of searches? You don't have to change your default search providers, you can just choose one from the bottom of the results list.
Honestly didn't notice Kagi was US-domiciled. Their meetups I think are typically in Europe and their co-working and office space is in Belgrade.
Anyway, Kagi's excellent, their search results for me are significantly better than Google (and customizable), they've leveraged AI in a way thats optional and, to me, class-leading in its ability to help with search. "But we're EU based" is a product strategy that might land you some local government contracts and a few customers whose key motivation is negative emotion towards others but it's never going to be the path to great success. Spotify didn't conquer the globe because they framed themselves as an anti-US anti-iMusic or anti-Pandora or whatever alternative. They conquered because their product was solid. Nobody cared where it's HQ was.
I think that, more than EU metasearch engines, we need EU search indexes. EUSP is already something, but they seem to be working rather slowly, compared to how quickly Brave built their own index.
It's also trivial to run a perfectly working metasearch engine with the same sources as Uruky, it's called Searxng.
In any case, good luck on this project. I personally don't think it's for me. Maybe a better user interface would change the equation, but as of now I'll stick to Qwant.
Yes! Uruky Site Search is our own EU-based index and we'd love to expand it, but that takes an enormous amount of resources (which we don't yet have).
Besides EUSP we also allow you to choose and use Mojeek and Marginalia, two other big EU-based indexes, and by using Uruky with them, you're supporting them financially, directly.
Does Uruky provide an API, or allow API usage such a way that I can leverage it as part of an agent workflow, or otherwise, in place of something like DuckDuckGo?
Can you expand on the benefits of that when there is no personal information (not even an email or payment ID after 14 days) associated with an account?
Interesting. Being EU-based is a huge plus over Kagi in my opinion.
I also like that they don't ask any personal data, even email address. I like services that don't want any personal details. Like with Mullvad, where they just give you a random number and that's your account ID <3 Unfortunately Mullvad enshittified in other ways so I had to move to ProtonVPN. But services that act like that are great IMO. Unfortunately a lot of services apply "Know your Customer" BS even though they are not in the financial sector.
However I wonder where they get their search data from. But it's worth investigating.
Well Mullvad stopped providing port forwarding, which is necessary for good torrent support (especially if you use public torrents and you need ones that aren't seeded a lot).
They also stopped supporting openvpn which I need. Wireguard only now.
It's not enshittification in terms of ads etc but it is reduction of possibilities because they already make enough money on the people using the main features.
> The name has no special meaning but we read it like "Euro-key" in English. Names are hard, and we're aware it can remind people of Uruk and Uruk-hai. That's OK.
I completely understand your point, though. It's not "Google"!
I will pay for search once Kagi or Brave accepts Monero and offers a reasonable price. Can I pay for Uruky with Monero? If you're worried about regulations consider reaching out to proxysto.re
Thanks! I have reached out over a week ago to them via email and Signal, to crickets. Let me know if you know why or how to reach them, or alternatives.
I think this is excellent so that Kagi can focus on making the best search engine instead of trying to please the angriest and most difficult customers.
> For image search, Uruky currently integrates Pixabay and Serper (image results).
https://uruky.com/faq
I am and always have.
- Hire a UI/UX person NOW! My parents and gf like using google and kagi because are easy to use.
- add the widgets like the football or the show the local store with the phone number asap. My gf is thinking about moving away from kagi because of this.
- the quick ai response is extremely useful.
- Indexing websites is super important. People doesnt know where to put the content in a website or how to make accessible. Many times i use google due to this fact.
- Make a family subscription.
- make it funny, easy to use and welcoming. The branding is SUPER important.
Good luck and I really wish you to succeed! Im paying for an account ;)
> - Indexing websites is super important. People doesnt know where to put the content in a website or how to make accessible. Many times i use google due to this fact.
Is there a way to build a search engine that doesn't involve either building or accessing a index somehow? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, is this for the website builders or for the users, who the "indexing of websites" is super important? The "people doesn't know" part sounds like it's for website authors, but the last part makes it sound like the context is search engine users.
- Ouch. We get a lot of love for our UI/UX, which I guess just goes to show taste is personal. If you have any particular points of friction, we'd love to hear about them.
- Only Serper allows for this, so we're very hesitant. If other providers allowed it, we could definitely consider it.
- We won't have Generative AI, sorry.
- Could you clarify?
- Check out the interview I gave The Privacy Dad, I explain the problems for something like that.
- Roger!
Just my two cents. But I am glad, that someone is creating an alternative in the EU. Hit me up, if you want to get more design opinions.
For this service, the "just an ID as account" looks nice and private on the surface, but once you look at payment methods, it's 100% personally identifiable. If it's so privacy-focused - where's the payment option for transferring Monero?
As for the code - don't get me started. Source available? NDAs?
Smells "Private VPN" funny to me.
Take a look at how Mullvad implemented it, which I guess is where you got the "cash in a letter" method from, they also handle cryptocurrencies by themselves for exactly this reason, there is no way for you to actually be able to fulfill the privacy promise otherwise.
Once you accept Monero I'll give it a try :)
Does this mean this is just a meta search engine without its own index?
If so, the comparison to Kagi seems misleading.
The question would turn from "why not Kagi" to "why not SearxNG".
It would be nice to have more search indexes available though, especially via APIs.
I wish Kagi was a search index, back when I was a Kagi subscriber that's what I hoped my funds were going towards building.
I'm only paying Mojeek about $10 - $20 per year in API for my personal metasearch, so I guess this is a terrible market to enter ;) But I'd genuinely be interested, especially if the money is going towards building an index.
I'd recommend you look into any of our other search providers if you just want the API search!
Kagi lets you test it offline (go incognito and try) " Kagi Search is funded by members, not advertisers: built to find what you need, not sell your attention.
Try 50 free searches, and if you love it, sign up for 100 more before choosing a plan. Searches used "
The reason for the higher barrier of entry is bots/abuse. Up until a few weeks ago we didn't even have the captcha option. Without any kind of identification, it's impossible to prevent automated/bot signups, and they can abuse the system to oblivion.
I understand that's not ideal, though I hope it still makes sense!
> Unfortunately, due to the fact it's too costly to properly avoid bots and other automated tools from abusing our service, we don't offer a free trial.
[1] : https://hister.org
They make it easy to be compliant with local laws and integrate payment features.
Still, was this using Mojeek or EUSP? Have you tried Linkup or Serper for those kinds of searches? You don't have to change your default search providers, you can just choose one from the bottom of the results list.
Anyway, Kagi's excellent, their search results for me are significantly better than Google (and customizable), they've leveraged AI in a way thats optional and, to me, class-leading in its ability to help with search. "But we're EU based" is a product strategy that might land you some local government contracts and a few customers whose key motivation is negative emotion towards others but it's never going to be the path to great success. Spotify didn't conquer the globe because they framed themselves as an anti-US anti-iMusic or anti-Pandora or whatever alternative. They conquered because their product was solid. Nobody cared where it's HQ was.
It's also trivial to run a perfectly working metasearch engine with the same sources as Uruky, it's called Searxng.
In any case, good luck on this project. I personally don't think it's for me. Maybe a better user interface would change the equation, but as of now I'll stick to Qwant.
Besides EUSP we also allow you to choose and use Mojeek and Marginalia, two other big EU-based indexes, and by using Uruky with them, you're supporting them financially, directly.
I also like that they don't ask any personal data, even email address. I like services that don't want any personal details. Like with Mullvad, where they just give you a random number and that's your account ID <3 Unfortunately Mullvad enshittified in other ways so I had to move to ProtonVPN. But services that act like that are great IMO. Unfortunately a lot of services apply "Know your Customer" BS even though they are not in the financial sector.
However I wonder where they get their search data from. But it's worth investigating.
- Mojeek - EUSP - Marginalia - Linkup - Serper (the only non-EU, being UK and proxying Google) - Uruky Site Search (our own index) - Pixabay (images)
I'd be curious to hear about your Mullvad experience (feel free to email me).
They also stopped supporting openvpn which I need. Wireguard only now.
It's not enshittification in terms of ads etc but it is reduction of possibilities because they already make enough money on the people using the main features.
But anyway I rely on both things so I moved over.
> The name has no special meaning but we read it like "Euro-key" in English. Names are hard, and we're aware it can remind people of Uruk and Uruk-hai. That's OK.
I completely understand your point, though. It's not "Google"!