ArXiv Declares Independence from Cornell

(science.org)

161 points | by bookstore-romeo 3 hours ago

10 comments

  • halperter 1 hour ago
    • reed1234 1 hour ago
      Should be the main link. The original article is based on the CEO job posting.
  • psalminen 1 hour ago
    I might be missing something, but I still don't get the why. I don't see any "problem" that needs to be solved.
    • u1hcw9nx 12 minutes ago
      I think the problem described in 6th paragraph needs to be solved.
    • kolinko 23 minutes ago
      The article lists the reasons quite clearly.
  • Peteragain 16 minutes ago
    .. and soon to be dependent on US military funding? Controlled by someone who has run-ins with universities? This'll end in tears.
  • dataflow 1 hour ago
    This sounds terrible. Of course there's a huge risk of it becoming made for-profit. It almost makes you wonder if the academic publishers are behind this push somehow.

    Could they not have made it into some legal structure that puts universities at the top? Say, with a bunch of universities owning shares that comprise the entirety of the ownership of arXiv, but that would allow arXiv to independently raise funds?

    • gucci-on-fleek 1 hour ago
      > Of course there's a huge risk of it becoming made for-profit.

      The article says that "it will become an independent nonprofit corporation", and as OpenAI's failed attempt showed, converting a non-profit to a for-profit organization is either really hard or impossible.

      > Could they not have made it into some legal structure that puts universities at the top?

      As a corporation (even a non-profit one), it will have a board of directors. I have no idea what their charter will look like, but I would be surprised if at least one seat wasn't reserved for a university representative, and more than that seems quite likely as well.

      • MostlyStable 1 hour ago
        OpenAI didn't get everything that they wanted, but I very much disagree with calling it a "failed attempt". The non-profit went from owning the entirety of OpenAI to having ~25% stake.
        • ronsor 1 hour ago
          Sam Altman is a special kind of person; not many could pull off the schemes he does.
          • gentleman11 1 hour ago
            I doubt it was him who architected it. A team of lawful evil lawyers more likely
        • gucci-on-fleek 1 hour ago
          Ah, thanks for the correction.
  • adamnemecek 2 hours ago
    Good call, ArXiv seems like one of the most important institutions out there right now.
    • koakuma-chan 23 minutes ago
      it just hosts pdfs, no?
      • aragilar 3 minutes ago
        It does do a fair amount of filtering of submissions, and it's a long term archive (e.g. for the next 100+ years). I suspect both (but with the former dominating) are the issue.
      • pfortuny 2 minutes ago
        Also the sources and has a very tame but useful pre-acceptance process.
    • p-e-w 1 hour ago
      It’s so important, in fact, that there should be more than one such institution.

      People keep falling into the same trap. They love monopolies, then are shocked when those monopolies jerk them around.

      • freehorse 2 minutes ago
        It is just a preprint repository. It is pretty open (the stories where a preprint was rejected or delayed unreasonably are extremely rare). It offers the basic services for a math/compsci/physics themed preprint repository.

        I don't see much of a monopoly, nor any "moat" apart from it being recognised. You can already post preprints on a personal website or on github, and there are "alternatives" such as researchgate that can also host preprints, or zenodo. There are also some lesser known alternatives even. I do not see anything special in hosting preprints online apart from the convenience of being able to have a centralised place to place them and search for them (which you call "monopoly"). If anything, the recognisability and centrality of arxiv helped a lot the old, darker days to establish open access to papers. There was a time when many journals would not let you publish a preprint, or have all kinds of weird rules when you can and when you can't. Probably still to some degree.

      • auggierose 1 hour ago
        I am using Zenodo for a while now instead. It is more user friendly, as well.
        • mastermage 15 minutes ago
          Zenodo is more for IT Papers and also datasets isn't it?
      • andbberger 1 hour ago
        there is. bioarxiv.
  • OutOfHere 22 minutes ago
    With 300K for the CEO, its enshittification will commence imminently. It will now serve to maximize revenue. Just wait and watch while they issue a premium membership, payment requirements for authors, and other revenue generators to please their investors.
    • exe34 17 minutes ago
      they'll just turn into a shitty journal at this point, they just need to introduce peer review and they can start competing with the real journals on price point.

      another will need to rise to take its place.

  • tornikeo 1 hour ago
    Now the question is, will arxiv wage a decade long bloody war with Cornell, using heavy infantry (PhD students), archers (reviewers) and field artillery (AI slop papers), or will the independence be mostly peaceful? Only time can tell.
    • alansaber 1 hour ago
      PhD students are levy infantry at best with Postdocs being the armoured levies.
  • unit149 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • tgtracing 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • davnicwil 1 hour ago
    Very unrelated to the article, but I think 'arXiv' as a brand is bad, and really detrimental to what the institution aims to accomplish.

    That is, it's not readily parseable, it really gives an insider term vibe - like this isn't for you if you don't already know what it means or how you should read or say it. It sort of reminds me of the overuse of latin and latinate terms generally in the old professions and, well, the academy.

    Just always struck me as being somewhat at odds with the goal.

    • john-titor 53 minutes ago
      I wonder what makes you feel that. I've been publishing preprints close to a decade on arxiv now and never had any particular feelings about it.

      To me it's just a way to get out your work fast, so that there is already a trace of it on the Internets - nothing more and nothing less.

      > That is, it's not readily parseable, it really gives an insider term vibe...

      Isn't that normal with highly specialized research fields? I agree many papers could benefit from clearer wording, but working in a niche means you sometimes don't reach a broader audience

      • davnicwil 42 minutes ago
        It's an opinion, and you feeling no particular way about it is equally valid.

        But I did justify and maybe to reword slightly, surely if one of the main drivers is opening up research, the brand name should be something that's less obscure and more accessible / understandable as to what it is on first sight?

        Maybe arXiv evoking the word 'archive' with an ancient Greek twist does that for some, but it's clearly a bit cryptic for many, and if the point is to open up probably the brand should just be something much plainer.

        • aragilar 5 minutes ago
          No, it's to be a pre-print server. If someone doesn't know what that means, then they shouldn't be using arXiv.
    • nixon_why69 51 minutes ago
      > like this isn't for you if you don't already know what it means

      Isn't that actually kindof a good brand signal for a repo of very specialized papers? "Fun with learning" in comic sans wouldn't help credibility.

    • jltsiren 10 minutes ago
      It's a classic story of someone having to pick a name quickly, which then gets established long before anyone who cares about branding is aware of its existence.

      The original service didn't even have a name, only a description, and it was amusingly hosted at xxx.lanl.gov. But LANL wasn't really interested in it, and the founder eventually left for Cornell. At that point, the service needed a domain name, but archive.org was already taken.

      And besides, the name has Ancient Greek influences. A similar Latinate term might be something like "archive".

    • vasco 27 minutes ago
      This the type of guy that will suggest paper.ly as a better name with a straight face and then we wonder why the internet is turning to shit