Science Fiction Is Dying. Long Live Post Sci-Fi?

(typebarmagazine.com)

43 points | by KittenInABox 2 hours ago

16 comments

  • ivraatiems 24 minutes ago
    I'd really enjoy a return to classic space opera. I think a world where technologies like AI actually work out okay to some extent is a) closer to fiction than the alternative, and b) more interesting than another dystopia.

    I'd enjoy a swashbuckling noblebright adventures-in-space thing way more than yet another treatise on Technology Bad right about now.

    That said, I don't know that I think sci-fi as a genre is dying per se. There are a lot of really prominent and popular science fiction pieces coming out today. Shows/books like Black Mirror and The Expanse, for example.

    • api 11 minutes ago
      The prevailing narrative is that the optimism collapsed because the real future didn't turn out like we hoped, but I don't think that's it. A lot of very optimistic sci-fi was written right after two world wars. I think it's more of a stylistic conceit. If it's not dark and edgy, it's not profound.

      Personally I think dark and edgy (or variants like pessimistic and bleak, or depressing and fatalistic) is the cheap easy way to look profound.

      I think that works because humans have a negativity bias. Bad news feels important. Mockery and drama and calling people out gets social attention. Conflict is thrilling even if the reasons behind it are ridiculous or cliche.

      Optimistic works don't get free bonus points from the amygdala, so they have to stand on their own. An uninteresting optimistic work is incredibly dull, even cringey. But a very mediocre boring pessimistic work can still seem deep.

  • TomasBjartur 1 hour ago
    It's a very interesting time to write science fiction. A lot of the greats are very dismissive of modern AI. So there is a lot of room to write things pertinent to the current moment.
    • rockskon 44 minutes ago
      From a purely economic standpoint, AI is its own worst enemy. Quicker to produce books made even cheaper and even automate-able?

      You could have AI generate the next Shakespeare and you'll almost certainly never get noticed amidst the flood of competing books.

      • operatingthetan 40 minutes ago
        It's fun to talk to an LLM yourself, but when I come upon someone else's output my eyes glaze over. I'm fine if an author uses AI to help them outline the book, brainstorm ideas, but I want the actual book to be written by a person.
        • robotresearcher 27 minutes ago
          How will you know?
          • operatingthetan 18 minutes ago
            If my eyes glaze over! For now output has a very programatic feel. Maybe not later, who knows?
            • robotresearcher 14 minutes ago
              It's an interesting moment we're at. Circles of trust are going to be really important. The internet is gonna be assumed-bot soon. TikTok is pretty much there already.
      • TomasBjartur 43 minutes ago
  • arcticfox 54 minutes ago
    I have a hard time reading sci-fi these days because the rapid advances of AI have altered or closed off entirely a lot of the futures that I would find most interesting. I have a hard time seeing much other than computers in the future. Maybe stories like the Hyperion Cantos with the AIs in the TechnoCore largely fighting amongst themselves over the future of humanity are still intersting to me.
    • robotresearcher 23 minutes ago
      > the rapid advances of AI have altered or closed off entirely a lot of the futures that I would find most interesting.

      Opening them up again is a possible creative move. For example 'Dune', a far future where AIs and computers are banned and highly taboo because they caused too much trouble. Or there's alternate paths from the actual past such as steampunk in which we pushed mechanical engines further instead of switching (!) entirely to electronics.

    • mosura 36 minutes ago
      Yeah, with who is doing space exploration being right up there. If it is us it isn’t going to be in our organic bodies, and this renders so much of it irrelevant. Wider society will likely pigeon hole their thinking on that next to concerns about the heat death of the universe, but for a lot of us it is disappointing.

      I did wonder about what it would be like embodied as a space probe encountering an alien that had also gone through the same process. That is now the sort of scifi that appeals.

      • WillAdams 21 minutes ago
        There was a short story online a while back which covered that which was put forward as an answer to the Fermi Paradox.
      • reactordev 23 minutes ago
        Literally the basis behind Eve-Online… you’re just a clone of consciousness of a citizen of New Eden.
    • operatingthetan 46 minutes ago
      Iain Banks still reigns supreme. Throw a couple LLMs in a chat together and they sound similar to his conversations between intelligences (particularly in Excession).
      • discardable_dan 25 minutes ago
        I do not want to read a bunch of gross torture porn, though.

        Greg Egan is far more interesting and spares you that.

    • whynotmaybe 16 minutes ago
      Barjavel's "Ravage" written in 1943 completely missed the computer revolution.

      The passage about audio books that works by having a camera above your book and someone remotely reading it to your headphone, is entertaining.

      And 3d tv was a success.

      Nevertheless, still a great story.

    • TomasBjartur 44 minutes ago
      I agree. But lots can be written about the future of computers. It's worth trying. Writing is fun at least!
    • Joel_Mckay 26 minutes ago
      In some stories, the outcome seems more plausible with current scientific hubris =3

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_No_Mouth%2C_and_I_Must_...

    • api 46 minutes ago
      Sci-fi is always about the future, or some possible future or alternate world, as imagined in the time it was written, and I think it has to be read that way. It's always about both the present (when it was written) and the future.

      It's basically fantasy except the magic is, to varying degrees, rooted in real science and physics. There is of course the whole hard/soft sci-fi continuum that determines just how rooted it is, with soft sci-fi being pure fantasy with sci-fi veneer and hard sci-fi being fantasy that's physically plausible.

      As actual science and technology advances and as society changes what we imagine will change. Sci-fi imagined today will either deal with AI and what AI is really shaping up to look like or it will imagine futures where AI has been abandoned for some reason (like Dune).

      • operatingthetan 44 minutes ago
        >Sci-fi is always about the future, or some possible future or alternate world, as imagined in the time it was written, and I think it has to be read that way. It's always about both the present (when it was written) and the future.

        In other words, it allows writers to talk about culture with a technological flair. It's still valuable later because it was really about the culture. The tech also enables wild scenarios, that often come true later on.

  • bradleyankrom 56 minutes ago
    Every few months I ask some AIs to write a Kilgore Trout short story for me.
  • daoboy 22 minutes ago
    Perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression, but it seems like this author is either ignorant of a lot of very successful contemporary scifi or is just taking a narrow view of the genre based on their own preferences.

    AI and independent publishing certainly make it harder to sort the wheat from the chaff, but the ubiquity and convenience of aquiririg reading materials has never been better in all of human history.

    I will never get caught up with all the scifi books I want to read, and nothing could make me happier.

  • zouhair 30 minutes ago
    I stopped reading Sci-Fi, it's just all dystopia and even when it's about a Utopia it's mostly about how it crumbles like with the Terra Ignota Series.

    We live in a dystopia, we need some utopian ideas, enough of the gloom and doom that ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy..

    • WillAdams 27 minutes ago
      The problem is, tales of the land of the happy nice people doesn't make for much of a story, or

      “. . . the newspapers of Utopia, he had long ago decided, would be terribly dull.” ― Arthur C. Clarke, _2001: A Space Odyssey_

      • modeless 18 minutes ago
        Star Trek TNG was an interesting utopia. I want more of that. (Not more Star Trek, more utopia sci-fi).
      • zouhair 9 minutes ago
        That's just lack of imagination.
      • awesome_dude 17 minutes ago
        Or the matrix take -

        > Agent Smith tells Morpheus that the first, "perfect" Matrix failed because humanity requires suffering, leading them to create a simulation based on the "peak of your civilization"—1999. Smith highlights that the machines actually took over during this era, making it their civilization rather than humanity's. The choice of 1999 provided a stable,, yet inherently flawed, era characterized by 90s technology, post-Cold War optimism, and, crucially, the necessary amount of human misery to prevent the simulation from failing.

    • ahhhhnoooo 21 minutes ago
      Read some Becky Chambers.
  • october8140 1 hour ago
    Sci-fi trending down doesn’t mean it’s dying.
  • Finnucane 29 minutes ago
    I was part of the NY sf publishing scene in 1990s. In those days the genre felt like a constraining box. The commercial successes of the 1970s and 80s, and the corporatization of publishing in general, meant that there were limits, in literary and conceptual ways. It's funny that he mentions Jonathan Lethem--I saw Jonathan a lot in those days. How to break out of genre was a frequent topic of conversation. It really seemed the only way up was out.
  • ausbah 39 minutes ago
    plenty of great sci-fi to through from the past. most anything on the hugo or nebula awards are great.
    • readthenotes1 30 minutes ago
      I haven't read great from the awards long before they became so obviously exploited.

      Like the movie awards, they've lost their relevance.

  • nevster 22 minutes ago
    There must be some law about articles proclaiming X is dead. Does anyone know of one? Something along the lines of "Any article declaring X is dead is always wrong and just trying to sell you something"

    Dumbest article I've read in a while.

  • awesome_dude 20 minutes ago
    It's sad because there's so much more "out there" for us to discover and wonder about, with "out there" referring to anything from the bottom of the deep blue sea, to the far reaches of our galaxy, and everything (literally) in between, including our inner selves

    Scifi, like most literature, was supposed to give us dreams about what we could do with what we found, or even dream about what is there to be found (IMO), so its demise leads us to a point where we're no longer dreaming?

  • FpUser 36 minutes ago
    I am a read addict. Love SF. There is so much hood stuff out there already that it will last more than a lifetime to read. So I am not really concerned
  • MarkusQ 59 minutes ago
    I would really like to be able to read something and find out that it's about whatever it said it was going to be about, and not bait to trick me into hearing about the author's 1) politics, 2) sexuality, 3) AI use or 4) investment grift.
    • mosura 48 minutes ago
      The fact this reflects the subject matter in question is an irony surely lost on the author as well.

      Political tedium aside a major factor in the decline of scifi is we live in the future, only it is not the future people were being excited about. As many creatives put it they wanted machines to do the chores and them to do the art, not the other way around.

    • throwaway9980 52 minutes ago
      Look on the bright side, you've lived to see 2026 where these four things have collapsed into each other. Like a rainbow refracted into pure white light.
    • crooked-v 31 minutes ago
      >scifi

      >I don't want to hear about politics or sexuality

      How actually familiar are you with the genre?

      • readthenotes1 28 minutes ago
        Perhaps instead, the complaint should be that the reader should not be lectured about politics or sexuality in a ham-handed self-righteous insertion completely irrelevant to the rest of the story.
        • defrost 3 minutes ago
          You've just described much of the "Golden Age of Sci Fi" - as peers have pointed out, Heinlein et al rarely shut up about identity and politics.
        • ahhhhnoooo 16 minutes ago
          Well there goes Orson Scott Card, Asimov, Heinlein, Orwell, etc.

          The politics and sexuality were always in these stories. They were just more familiar, so they don't seem as self righteous. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a classic example of a story with sexuality and politics in old timey sci fi.

        • crooked-v 18 minutes ago
          You've just described a substantial part of Star Trek, before even considering the rest of the genre.
  • api 50 minutes ago
    Good sci-fi has always been few and far between. I love sci-fi, but I also dislike a lot of it because a lot of it's not well written from a prose craft or character depth point of view. When it is, it's probably my favorite genre.

    I feel like we're lucky to get one outstanding sci-fi book or series per decade.

    I'll rattle off some notable books and films/TV (or in some cases both) from the last 20 years. Some of these overlap with other genres like horror, lit-fic, etc., but I consider them all sci-fi to some degree. Some are well known and some are obscure.

    The Expanse, Europa Report, Moon, Primer, The Arrival, Never Let Me Go, For All Mankind (the unofficial Expanse prequel), Sleep Dealer (indie film that stuck with me), The Color Out of Space (2019 film of Lovecraft's story), Banshee Chapter, The Peripheral, Blindsight, Annihilation, I'm sure I could keep going...

    • JoeAltmaier 45 minutes ago
      99 percent of everything is crap. SF is no worse than anything else?
      • MathMonkeyMan 9 minutes ago
        I haven't gone deep on enough things to know whether science fiction is worse than anything else in that regard. But science fiction is largely trope-ridden young adult male power fantasy emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually bereft pulp. It's also my favorite genre.
  • mikkupikku 48 minutes ago
    Troubling, but I'll worry about it after I run out of 20th century slop to read.
  • throwpoaster 1 hour ago
    1) Wow, you made a cool thing!

    2) You should change your thing to agree with my politics!

    3) Wow, now your thing is super unpopular!

    4) No, I won't buy it. I never liked your thing anyway. That's why I wanted you to change it!

    5) <- We are here.