Woxi: Wolfram Mathematica Reimplementation in Rust

(github.com)

128 points | by adamnemecek 2 days ago

9 comments

  • the__alchemist 1 hour ago
    I love Rust for mathematical and scientific tasks (I am building the structural bio crate infrastructure), and I love Mathematica and have a personal sub. I should be the audience, but... What makes Mathematica great, IMO, is the polish and overall experience created by consistent work with applications in mind over decades. So, I look at this project with skepticism regarding its utility.
    • adius 1 hour ago
      Sure, but you've got to start somewhere! And with the amount of progress I was able to make in just a few weeks, I'm very optimistic that the polish will come sooner rather than later.
      • the__alchemist 1 hour ago
        Based on the list of contributors to your project, I am not sure this starting location is optimally suited to the task of building a foundation for polished, reliable, expandable software.
        • adius 1 hour ago
          It's having ~ 5000 tests already. Used correctly, AI agents can help you improve the quality of the code!
          • the__alchemist 1 hour ago
            Do you see why this perspective is a red flag on its own?
            • ComplexSystems 41 minutes ago
              I certainly don't. If a software developer has found a way to use these tools that works well for them and produces good results, that's a good thing.
            • mountainriver 48 minutes ago
              No I don’t, review your code
              • supriyo-biswas 15 minutes ago
                If I go by the contributor numbers on Github, I see Claude has committed something on the order of 300,000 lines of code. I don't think it's reasonable to review that much code, even in weeks worth of time.
          • copperx 59 minutes ago
            God help us.
        • s3p 1 hour ago
          The sneering on HN really has no end. This is a good project! I for one am very excited to see an interpreter born out of rust.
    • rustyhancock 59 minutes ago
      Similarly I'm not sure Octave ever really got that polish to compete with MATLAB.

      SPSS is hilariously painful to use. Still it's only losing ground ever so slowly. PSPP remains almost unheard of among SPSS core users.

      • 3eb7988a1663 20 minutes ago
        I am not sure Octave ever had to put on that much polish. It just had to be decent enough to save $$$$ vs a Matlab license. If it can drop-in run the code that has been keeping the lab going for decades, good enough.
    • amelius 1 hour ago
      Yeah, the Mathematica language is the least interesting aspect of the Mathematica system. Closely followed by the interactive notebooks.
      • stared 1 hour ago
        The notebooks were THE thing of Mathematica, at least to me. 12 years ago, as I was finishing my PhD in quantum optics, I wanted to migrate to the stack used in industry - and picked Python. Also, that way I was an early adopter of Jupyter Notebook, as it captured what was need + was open.

        Now Mathematica notebooks (still remember, it is .nb) do not have the novelty factor. But they were the first to set a trend, which we now take for granted.

        That said, I rarely use notebooks anymore. In the coding time, it is much easier to create scripts and ask to create a visualization in HTML.

      • aeonik 1 hour ago
        I disagree, the language itself is one of the more elegant parts of the system, and enables a lot of the rest of the elegance.

        From a purely programming language theory, it's pretty unique.

        I once tried to find a language that had all the same properties, and I failed. The Factor language is probably the closest. But they are still pretty different.

        • zozbot234 1 hour ago
          The relevant programming paradigm is string/term rewriting, which is featured in other programming languages such as Pure. It seems to have few direct applications outside of symbolic computing itself, compilers and related fields such as PL theory. (Formal calculi and languages are often specified in PL theory as rewrite rules, even though the practical implementation may ultimately differ.)
      • s3p 1 hour ago
        First I believe there is no such thing as the Mathematica language, it's Wolframscript which is useful in a bunch of different applications. And second, if you don't have access to a $1000 / yr wolfram subscription, this would be the next best thing.
  • anandijain 46 minutes ago
    This is cool! I've always wanted a polished kernel on the terminal. I spent a lot of time a few years ago writing my own Wolfram Kernel. It was a blast to understand how a pattern matching (symbolic) language is implemented.

    https://github.com/anandijain/cas8.rs

  • adius 2 days ago
    Hi, I'm the main developer. We're steadily getting closer to the next release which will support most features of Mathematica 1.0 plus some of the most popular newer functions (> 900 overall!). AMA!
    • egl2020 1 hour ago
      There's a mystique around Mathematica's math engine. Is this groundless, or will you eventually run into problems getting correct, identical answers -- especially for answers that Mathematic derives symbolically? The capabilities and results of the computer algebra systems that I've used varied widely.
      • adius 1 hour ago
        Hard to tell honestly. So far there was always some surprisingly straight forward solution If had any problems with the math engine. There is actually a lot of public research how equations can be solved/simplified with computer algorithms. So I'm optimistic. I also stumbled upon a few cases where Mathematica itself didn't quite do things correctly itself (rounding errors, missing simplifications, etc.). So maybe it's actually a little overhyped …
    • cs702 2 hours ago
      Thank you for sharing this on HN.

      It's a worthwhile effort. If successful, Woxi can enable a large mass of scientists and engineers who don't have access to Mathematica to run legacy code written for it. Also, Woxi would give those scientists and engineers who regularly use Mathematica a non-proprietary, less restrictive alternative, which many of them would welcome.

      How does Woxi compare to other "clean-room implementations"[a] of the same language?

      --

      [a] Please check with a lawyer to make sure you won't run into legal or copyright issues.

    • utopiah 2 hours ago
      Interesting, thanks for sharing. Naive question as I'm not familiar with Mathematica much (but aware of it and Wolfram Alpha and related tools), how does it compare to e.g. Jupyter or Julia or maybe another language (with its framework) that might be even closer?
      • adius 55 minutes ago
        I think Wolfram Language is just so much more ergonomic. No need to import dependencies - everything's included and consistent, very readable - yet compact - syntax, less gotchas than Python, R, etc., sensible default, …
    • muizelaar 2 hours ago
      How does it compare to mathics?

      How close is it to being able to run rubi: https://rulebasedintegration.org/?

    • apetresc 2 hours ago
      What percentage of the overall code was written primarily by agents?
    • dist-epoch 2 hours ago
      Why would I use this and not Wolfram Script?

      Better license? Allowed for commercial operations?

      • adius 1 hour ago
        Exactly! And:

        - Faster startup time because of no license check

        - Can run multiple instances of Woxi at the same time

        - Embeddable via WASM

        - Configurable via compile time flags (which features should be included)

        - …

    • foobarqux 1 hour ago
      How is the popularity/rank in functions.csv determined?
      • adius 1 hour ago
        That's actually a value that Wolfram determines themselves. Here is the documentation for it: https://reference.wolfram.com/language/ref/WolframLanguageDa...

        Here is e.g. all the values for the Plus[] function:

        $ wolframscript -code 'WolframLanguageData["Plus", "Ranks"]' {All -> 6, StackExchange -> 8, TypicalNotebookInputs -> 5, TypicalProductionCode -> 6, WolframAlphaCodebase -> 6, WolframDemonstrations -> 4, WolframDocumentation -> 4}

    • foobarqux 54 minutes ago
      Have you considered using quickcheck/random/property-based testing with LLM code generation to automate function implementation?
      • adius 17 minutes ago
        Yeah, I've already looked into it, but decided to keep developing it "example driven" for now. Aka I'm playing around with it, and whenever I find something that's broken I keep a note of it and then I pick those notes one by one and implement them. Once the most common things are implemented I will start writing property tests to catch all the edge cases of each feature.
  • WillAdams 1 hour ago
    For folks who are considering passing, note that there is a "Jupyter Lite" mode in addition to "Woxi Studio" --- seems very promising and the former addressed my first concern out-the-gate.
  • esafak 1 hour ago
    I wonder if it would make a good Zeppelin interpreter. https://zeppelin.apache.org/
    • adius 45 minutes ago
      Oh cool, haven't heard of this before. Could be a good fit - I'll have to try it out some day!
  • downboots 1 hour ago
    Great! Math tools for everyone.

    what's stopping some Mathematica employee from taking the source code and having an agent port it. Or even reconstruction from the manual. Who owns an algorithm?

    Will everything get copied eventually?

  • fnord77 1 hour ago
    vibe coded?
    • adius 1 hour ago
      Such a massive undertaking would be almost impossible without AI agents, so yeah, they help me. But with around 5000 tests, they are actually helping to improve the software quality!
      • tock 44 minutes ago
        Did you actually review 313,397 LOC written by claude? And you wrote the tests? That's honestly very impressive if yes.
      • throawayonthe 1 hour ago
        are all the tests hand written or are some agent-contributed? curious
        • mountainriver 46 minutes ago
          What’s the difference if you review the code getting merged?
  • aaron695 2 hours ago
    [dead]