29 comments

  • londons_explore 4 hours ago
    You can do a while lifetimes work, and yet sometimes it's a tiny action like this which can have the biggest benefit to mankind.

    Just think how many billions of times someone has avoided pulling up to the wrong side of the pump because of this arrow - literal lifetimes of effort saved.

    • lostlogin 3 hours ago
      The person (committee?) who came up with USB A needs sanctions.

      And Apple Needs more, for putting power buttons and key ports at that back.

      • qwertytyyuu 3 hours ago
        No the people who decided that usb 3.2 gen 2x2 and usb 4 version 2.0 gen 4x2 were acceptable names are the ones who should be sanctioned
        • ryandrake 1 hour ago
          I still don't know by memory whether USB full-speed or USB high-speed is faster. Boy, tech people just can't name things.
          • fragmede 1 hour ago
            Hey, when we said naming things was one of the hardest problems in computer science, we were right!
      • pa7ch 3 hours ago
        whats wrong with usb-a? I feels more sturdy and less likely to have connection issues then usb-c in my experience.
        • lostlogin 2 hours ago
          > whats wrong with usb-a?

          Which way up it should go.

          • bmicraft 30 minutes ago
            The side with the holes. That's true for 95% of devices, with one of the few major exceptions being cheap chinese powerbanks
          • silisili 2 hours ago
            Simple. The third way you try, always.
          • schmuckonwheels 2 hours ago
            PS/2, which USB all but replaced, solved this by visually keying one side of the connector as flat.
            • gambiting 5 minutes ago
              And I have more than once bent the tiny pins by trying to orient the plug by feel, and it was a nightmare to fix it afterwards.
          • thih9 2 hours ago
            Where the logo is.
            • lostlogin 2 hours ago
              And when the port is vertical and you can’t see it?

              I’m surprised how tolerable people seemed to find Apples rear ports.

          • sitharus 2 hours ago
            The other way
            • onion2k 2 hours ago
              No, the other other way.
              • hexbin010 2 hours ago
                It's almost impressive that they designed a port that feels so wrong when you actually get it right
                • lostlogin 2 hours ago
                  I worked in an IT department at one time and encountered USB-A plugs forced into Ethernet ports.

                  It seems so unlikely that I’ve just searched it to see if it’s possible, but am getting no hits.

                  • lefra 57 minutes ago
                    My laptop has one of these ethernet ports that half close when not in use. It doesn't work anymore because someone mistook it for the USB port that's right next to it when distractingly plugging their keyboard in.
                  • fragmede 1 hour ago
                    no, they definitely fit. They're just awkwardly exactly the right size that while you're trying to plug things in punched over under the desk and crawling around and feeling around the backside; it just yeah.
          • thaumasiotes 2 hours ago
            It's very weird that USB-C solved the problem of "we can't tell which way to insert the plug" by mandating that both orientations should work, as opposed to just making the exterior of the plug as asymmetrical as the interior.
            • dxdm 2 hours ago
              I don't find it weird. Not even having to work out a correct orientation is a great convenience. The micro-USB connection (or is it "min"?), which I need to fiddle with to charge some older gadgets, is a testament to how annoying an "asymetric exterior" plug can still be.
              • lostlogin 1 hour ago
                With micro USB you end up with damaged plugs and ports in my experience.
                • rounce 1 hour ago
                  Yes, micro USB is far too flimsy for a lot of things it’s used for from what I’ve observed. The connector seems to have a lot of leverage for ripping its tracks off, but often not a great mechanical connection to the board.
            • iainmerrick 1 hour ago
              You mean something like HDMI? If you’ve ever tried to plug one of those into the back of a TV, you’ll know it’s still pretty difficult to get it the right way up.
              • thaumasiotes 1 hour ago
                > If you’ve ever tried to plug one of those into the back of a TV, you’ll know it’s still pretty difficult to get it the right way up.

                That's true, but the difficulty in that case comes from being unable to see the hole or fit into the space between the television and the wall.

                For example, plugging an HDMI cable into the back of a monitor involves none of the difficulty of plugging an HDMI cable into the back of a TV, even though the connector and the port are the same in both cases.

                • bdbdbdb 3 minutes ago
                  I bought a cheap USB hub so I don't have to reach behind the TV to plug things in
            • haritha-j 25 minutes ago
              sometimes you're plugging in things at the back of something nearly flush against a wall and you can't really see, its quite useful for the connector to be reversible.
            • asplake 2 hours ago
              Less weird as they get smaller. Call it an accessibility thing if you like, but I think it's better for everyone and congrats to them. Isn't this what technology is supposed to do, make things easier?
      • stephenr 2 hours ago
        Which rear facing "key port" on a Mac are you suggesting should be on the front?
        • lostlogin 2 hours ago
          > Which rear facing "key port" on a Mac are you suggesting should be on the front?

          USB.

          I used iMacs, mini and pro machines. Any ports in the front would be nice.

          My m4 mini does have some front ports. It’s less of an issue now with usb-c but the iMac presumably still rear mounts them.

    • jstanley 54 minutes ago
      What's wrong with pulling up to the wrong side of the pump? I do it all the time when the petrol station is busy, just pull the hose over to the other side and fuel the car anyway.
      • tpoacher 38 minutes ago
        just because there's nothing particularly wrong with only getting the usb in on the 3rd try doesn't mean it's not a minor inconvenience worth resolving.

        but if you want a more dramatic example, it's right there in the text: Moylan got soaked because of this inconvenience. if he'd gotten a pneumonia as a result of this and died, then that is suddenly much more than a minor inconvenience.

        • xnorswap 22 minutes ago
          There's a trick to USB, the block part (in the wire) is nearer the ground. ( motherboard-side for vertical desktops )

          Since learning that, I have the confidence to stick it in first time rather than 3rd or 4th.

          That's not to say that USB-C isn't a huge improvement that has thankfully resolved having to know that.

          • bdbdbdb 7 minutes ago
            I like that usbc is double sided but I find them prone to pop out a lot easier than standard usb. It's a weird ask but wish they were bigger
      • CoastalCoder 44 minutes ago
        The hose won't always reach.
        • jstanley 43 minutes ago
          In my experience that's only true in TV adverts from my childhood. I've never had one unable to reach in real life.
          • cromka 30 minutes ago
            Try in Europe
            • looperhacks 15 minutes ago
              I live in Europe, never encountered a problem.
            • gambiting 7 minutes ago
              I'm in Europe, the hoses always reach to the other side of the car just fine. Or maybe you know, remember that Europe isn't one country and actually say where you are.
            • paganel 23 minutes ago
              I'm in Europe, in case you're on the "wrong" side of the pump you just have to make sure that you park the car a little further, so you'd get the pump hose through the back and on to the other side without scratching the car's paint. That's all it is to it. I'm from Romania and I've driven (and hence re-fueled) my car all the way from Bretagne, France, to Peloponnese, Greece, never had a problem.

              I also don't know anything about any "arrow" signalling anything in my dashboard, maybe it's only on the US-made cars, I wouldn't know cause I generally know on which side I have to fuel my car.

              • stavros 4 minutes ago
                Agreed about never having a problem with this, but our cars either have the arrow, or the hose in the icon is on the side of the car that has the tank cover. This has been true for all cars I've seen here.
              • bdbdbdb 5 minutes ago
                I'm also in Europe, I drive a ford, and the only fuel arrow on my dash actually points to the wrong side for filling
    • NedF 38 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • schmuckonwheels 2 hours ago
    2020s UX "experts" would bury the entire instrument cluster under a hamburger menu if they could get away with it.

    The fuel gauge would be moved three menus deep and thus impossible to find, then removed in subsequent model years when their telemetry data "proved" no one used it anymore.

    • unglaublich 2 hours ago
      In the end, these engineers' job is make profit for the company. If the customer allows for all this crap, and still buys cars/fridges/tvs with such horrible UX, then it's the way forward.
      • schmuckonwheels 2 hours ago
        >If the customer allows for all this crap

        You imply they ever had a choice.

        Companies like Tesla and Rivian pioneered the trend of bringing webshit-as-an-instrument cluster to the mainstream. Other car companies saw dollar signs, rode their coattails and immediately copied it.

        What is a customer supposed to do? Buy a Mitsubishi Mirage? Build their own instrument cluster?

    • toast0 2 hours ago
      Most of the instrument cluster is superfluous. My 81 Vanagon has only these and it's fine:

      Speedometer (which starts at 10 mph and I've managed to adjust so it's about right at 40ish but reports 70 mph when you're doing 60), odometer (5.1 digits), fuel gauge (non-linear, but consistent, the top half is a lot bigger than the bottom half, no arrow because it hadn't been invented yet). And then some lights: brake warning lamp (but the bulb is burnt out and doesn't seem replacable), high beam indicator, alternator indicator, turn signal indicator (one led for both directions!), low oil pressure indicator, and EGR indicator which really just turns on 10,000 miles after you push the button on the box under the front of the car.

      Don't even need a tach, cause they put one dot on the speedo where you should shift out of first, two dots where you should shift out of second, and three dots where you should shift out of third.

      The gauge lights come on when the headlights are on, so that's a subtle indicator too, I guess.

      Don't really need much more than that. There was an optional clock in my model year, but mine doesn't have one.

      • b112 33 minutes ago
        Speedometer could be due to different size tires.
      • fragmede 1 hour ago
        It's all optional if you have enough mechanical empathy. No speedo, oil light, odo, gas gauge. You just get a feel for how fast you're going. You haven't really lived until you've ridden a salvage titled motorcycle with zero instrument cluster across 17 without headlights after the sun's gone down. Sometimes I'm surprised I made it this long.
    • hexbin010 2 hours ago
      BMW would put it behind a subscription
    • eastbound 2 hours ago
      It drives usage up! Seriously, I wonder whether this “Make things to annoy people” trend is a normal situation, or an emerging behavior due to our era, and whether it will be solved one day. Example: In 2003 all UX was abominable, programs were ugly and black and white and text and boring, then came the iPhone with the idea to hire designers for apps, it was entirely new and absolutely unseen before. It was necessary during the take off phase of our industry, but are we simply witnessing the regression to normal, with UX being driven by corporate suits?
  • wombatpm 4 hours ago
    Which is great for new cars. I drove a 78 Buick Riviera. Friends couldn’t figure out how to fill it up. Because the gas cap was behind the license plate in the back!
    • waldrews 3 hours ago
      Why didn't they just ask ChatGPT?

      Oh wait.

      • charcircuit 3 hours ago
        For those curious, the first sentence of the response from ChatGPT gets it correct.

        >On a 1978 Buick Riviera, the gas cap is hidden behind a flip-down license plate on the rear bumper.

        • IncRnd 1 hour ago
          That's not what I received from ChatGPT. This is:

          The fuel filler door is on the left side (driver’s side) of the vehicle. Therefore, the little arrow on the dash fuel gauge should point to the left to indicate that.

          (Most Buick Rivieras of that era had the fuel filler on the driver’s side, though official Buick manuals or build sheets from 1978 confirm this location.)

  • janosch_123 18 minutes ago
    His letter is from 1986. Mercedes W123 and R107 clusters had triangles pointing in the filler direction in the 1970s already. (Granted, not quite as clear as his next iteration).
  • ryanjshaw 4 hours ago
    Anybody else get confused by whether the arrow represents where the car should be or the pump?
    • LoFiSamurai 4 hours ago
      No
    • michaelmdresser 4 hours ago
      I think this is the source of me misinterpreting the symbol a few times, so yes.
    • Revisional_Sin 42 minutes ago
      Yeah, it's a bit counter-intuitive.
    • KellyCriterion 2 hours ago
      Isnt it that nowadays usually on the side of the driving seat? Or does this apply only to EU vehicles?

      Im not a regular car user, if at all Im renting - but the last 10 times(?) it was always just on the side of the driving seat

      • onion2k 2 hours ago
        Isnt it that nowadays usually on the side of the driving seat? Or does this apply only to EU vehicles?

        That would mean designing two separate entire fuel tank placements, fuel lines, etc for cars that are available both in left- and right-hand drive variants, with different SKUs for each of the parts needed. There is no way a car manufacturer would do that.

      • Sebb767 59 minutes ago
        Usually, it will be where the passenger side is in the cars home market. That is left for Japanese and British vehicles and right for US and German ones.

        Fun fact, for single exhaust cars, the exhaust will usually be on the driver side, in order to route around the fuel tank :-)

      • tripledry 2 hours ago
        Im not aware of such a convention, I'm in the EU and most cars I've owned or driven has it on the opposite side of the driving seat.

        Might just be a coincidence

        • scott_w 2 hours ago
          It’s a coincidence because the UK uses the same cars and ours are mostly on the same side (because we’re right hand drive where you’re left hand drive).
      • apparent 2 hours ago
        I think it depends. Especially with PHEVs, which also have a charge port, whose location is determined by charging infrastructure, and which is not IME on the same side as the gas tank opening.
        • dmead 1 hour ago
          My phev has charging and gas on the same side. I'm american
          • gambiting 2 minutes ago
            My PHEV has charging and fuel ports on opposite sides. Volvo XC60.
    • mongol 2 hours ago
      I do. It is not obvious in any case
    • sublinear 3 hours ago
      I agree. As much as people appreciate the factoid, it's not an example of good design.

      I don't ever recall the arrow being paid attention to until listicles and other blog spam were born. It has all the elements of great clickbait.

      • gk1 3 hours ago
        I actually use it all the time when driving a rental.
        • mhdhn 3 hours ago
          I use it all the time because I switch between a lot of different cars a lot, and my memory is not that great.
        • jquery 2 hours ago
          That isn’t in conflict with it being bad design.
          • mschild 58 minutes ago
            True. Though im unsure of what would be a better one. Doesnt get much simpler than an arrow.

            Id think that for a car you own you wouldnt need it after the first few times though.

            • chillstreem 0 minutes ago
              a better solution would have been to have an industry wide standard icon for the fuel inlet and then an arrow would point on which side of the vehicle it is. The way it is now with the pump icon really can be confusing. If the arrow is pointing right, it seems to be suggesting the driver should go to the right of the pump which is obviously wrong.

              I like the way EVs have the squiggly hose icon and that tells you everyting.it doesn't depict the charger station, but the plug point on the vehicle.

      • mayneack 3 hours ago
        I use it regularly
      • jquery 2 hours ago
        It’s terrible design. Until I encountered one of these listicles I had no idea what that arrow was.
  • cake-rusk 1 hour ago
    Cars in India don't have this arrow. The inlet is always on the left (passeger) side. I wonder if there is some regulation governing this.

    Edit: though I have never seen / noticed any cars with the fuel inlet on the driver's side some imported cars may have them.

    I guess this is a first world problem.

    • delaminator 57 minutes ago
      When I lived in India you bought petrol from the petrol station in 2 litre plastic bottles.
      • cake-rusk 53 minutes ago
        Really? When was this?
        • cromka 27 minutes ago
          When they lived in India
  • phibz 4 hours ago
    On cars without the arrow they often follow the convention where the gas filler handle is depicted on the same side of the gas icon as the filler door is in the car.
    • whiteboardr 1 hour ago
      That was the original idea on how the icon should be used but obviously too subtle.

      Moylan basically added a modifier icon for clarity.

    • nutjob2 4 hours ago
      First time I've heard of that convention.
    • pants2 2 hours ago
      I've heard that the gauge always points towards the side the cap is on when pointing to empty
      • anjel 2 hours ago
        Far too subtle
  • celeritascelery 4 hours ago
    I had no idea till this moment that’s what the arrow was for…
    • acheron 4 hours ago
      I didn’t know it was possible to not know this.
      • phantasmish 2 hours ago
        Nobody ever told me and I drove my first car for a long time, rarely drove other people’s cars, and did not have the kind of lifestyle that either supported or required rental cars.

        I found out around age 35, I think. From reading it online. I’ve told a bunch of people who didn’t know.

      • apparent 2 hours ago
        Who taught you? I didn't know until my 20s and have met many adults who didn't know.
      • AlotOfReading 3 hours ago
        I've encountered a few cars where the arrow points to the wrong side, and it's quite subtle if no one tells you.
      • dmead 1 hour ago
        I'm in my 40s and just learned this right now.
    • nutjob2 4 hours ago
      I'm sure about 99% of people are in the same boat.
  • mongol 2 hours ago
    Is the side to fill up evenly balanced between cars in average? I imagine there is value to make it close to 50/50 to simplify the logistics at the gas station. I was thinking car manufacturers perhaps had agreed so that some brands do it one way and some do it another
    • LordHeini 1 hour ago
      No the filler placement is sort of a cultural or historical thing.

      Usually European cars have filler on the passenger side while American and Japanese put them on the driver side.

      Afaik passenger side fillers are more safe if you run out of gas and need to fill up from a canister at the side of the road.

      While driver side fillers are more comfortable because you don't have to walk as far to get there.

      • b112 27 minutes ago
        I recall looking at a car to buy, and the salesman toted the gas cap on the right as the "safe side".

        The logic was, if you run out of gas, you can refill on the side away from traffic.

        Dumbest design reasoning. Plan the side, for an event most people never experience?! Or if they do, once... and maybe on a rural dirt road, not necessarily a freeway.

        Probably wanted an excuse for moving it.

        • cromka 24 minutes ago
          Do you also hate airplane regulations for their dumbest reasoning? You know, when they try to avoid one in a million situation saving mere 200 people?
    • zmgsabst 2 hours ago
      Even if there was a single side for filling, direction of approach being random is enough for 50/50 utilization of the pumps — so I’m not convinced there’s a pressure to spread which side the tank is on.
      • namdnay 2 hours ago
        > direction of approach being random

        is this specific to a country? I'm not sure I've ever seen a petrol station that wasn't one-way

        • alibarber 1 hour ago
          Huh, you’ve got me thinking now.

          Here in Finland at least there are a lot of completely unattended pumps that once you exit the road it’s basically just a patch of land and you pull up in whatever direction you want to match the side of your tank to a free pump.

          But in the UK where I’m from and just got back from this is maybe less common.

        • zmgsabst 1 hour ago
          I’m not sure I’ve ever seen one that was one-way; but my experience is limited to US, MY, TH, and VN.

          In those four at least, traffic can come from either direction so you can have left-handed fills use both sides of a pump.

  • apparent 2 hours ago
    I was like 20 when I learned about this trick. Before then I'd only driven a few vehicles, and I just knew which side of the car the gas tank opening was on. A friend mentioned it when we were going to fill up a car a borrowed car and I asked which side it was on.

    I've since met many adults who were unaware of this trick. It's like the real-world analog of an insufficiently discoverable UI functionality.

  • toomuchtodo 6 days ago
  • daveoc64 2 hours ago
    I'm from the UK and had honestly not heard of the arrow.

    I've checked my Toyota Yaris, and it's there!

  • delaminator 58 minutes ago
    Or make it so you can pump on both sides of the car, like we have.
  • weinzierl 3 hours ago
    It's a convenient little invention but "the fact that there wasn't a simple way to know which side of a vehicle the gas tank was located on" is not quite true.

    Usually, if the vehicle is of Japanese or British origin, the cap is on the left, otherwise it is on the right.

    Source: I’ve driven dozens of different vehicle models all over Europe for decades. This rule always worked well enough for me.

  • lovegrenoble 42 minutes ago
    Indian vehicles do not have this arrow.
    • mrnaught 33 minutes ago
      Are you sure ? Have been driving car myself when I visit. Since 2018 I don’t recollect a car without that arrow.
  • f4c39012 2 hours ago
    I prefer the pump that is on the side of the petrol cap, but filling up from either side absolutely works for me in the uk, there isn't a "wrong side"
    • tlavoie 1 hour ago
      One side is "wronger" when driving an unnecessarily large land yacht. My Civic, it's fine.
  • cf100clunk 5 days ago
  • tiku 3 hours ago
    One of my previous cars didn't have the signaling arrow and I missed it instantly. Such a subtle great idea.
  • arjvik 2 hours ago
    One of the many patron saints of engineers!

    If he so believed in it, may his arrow be pointing up! :)

  • tjr 3 hours ago
    Wow! I just used this a few days ago when I rented a U-Haul van. Such a great user interface element.
  • anigbrowl 4 hours ago
    Why would you not just always put it on the driver's side, since they're the most likely to be doing the refueling?
    • netsharc 4 hours ago
      And which side is the driver side? Surprise, it depends on the country. And a Japanese car manufacturer will move the driver controls to sell cars in USA/Continental Europe, but flipping everything else will cost more.

      I've driven 2 models of an Italian brand, my previous car had the gas tank on the passenger side, and my current one has it on the driver side. I do wonder why they changed it.

      There's also the issue of pulling to a small road side petrol station, having the fuel door on the passenger side means you don't have to be standing next to the busy road while refuelling.

      • globular-toast 2 hours ago
        I live in the UK (drive on the left) and my Honda had it on the passenger side while my VW has it on the driver's side.
      • wickedsight 2 hours ago
        > I do wonder why they changed it.

        Depending on model years, it could have something to do with Fiat merging with Chrysler in 2014. European brands usually have them on the passenger's side, while US brands have them on the driver's side. Maybe that new Fiat was designed in the US.

      • thomassmith65 3 hours ago
        As it should be. If the Globalist cabal had their way, everyone would drive on the same side of the road (like mindless assembly line workers) and traffic signs would be completely standardized, and - yes - the fuel filler would be on the same side of every car (welcome to a monotonous Communist dystopia). They already came for Sweden ('Dagen H' Plan. Do your own research) /s
    • npunt 3 hours ago
      safest place is put it opposite of drivers side, because if you're out of gas on the side of the road and filling it up, you won't be standing right next to freeway traffic. Saab started this.
      • nullhole 3 hours ago
        A linked article agrees:

          "... many European cars have the fuel door located on the passenger side, while many Japanese and American vehicles have the fuel door on the driver side. Both techniques have valid reasons. European automakers place the fuel filler on the passenger side for the sake of safety when a vehicle has run out of fuel and has pulled off onto the shoulder of the road to fill up from a canister. Meanwhile, American OEMs tend to place the fuel door on the driver side of the vehicle for convenience reasons, so that a driver doesn't have to walk around the vehicle when filling up at a gas station."[0]
        
        Brings to mind the Dead Kennedys album name, "Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death"

        [0] https://fordauthority.com/2020/08/ford-designer-credited-for...

        • KellyCriterion 2 hours ago
          thank you, didnt know that, although Im in EU :-))
      • charcircuit 3 hours ago
        Is that actually safer? Both you and drivers lose visibility which in my mind makes it more dangerous.
    • arijun 4 hours ago
      What happens when they sell the car in a country that drives on the other side of the road? They would have to move everything around.
      • chongli 3 hours ago
        They could design the fuel tank to be symmetrical about the axis parallel to the car’s axels. This would let it be flipped during installation at the factory to have the refueling port facing either side. Then the only difference would be the body panel and little door that covers the gas cap.
        • sitharus 2 hours ago
          Many (mostly European and North American) manufacturers can’t even be bothered flipping the indicator and light controls around, there’s no way they’d flip the whole fuel tank.
        • kube-system 2 hours ago
          They could but there are downstream packaging compromises that would cause. It is easier to design the vehicle without imposing that design constraint on yourself
      • aryonoco 2 hours ago
        They don’t. It stays on the same side as it was. They don’t move the bonnet opening lever or the indicator stalk either.
    • fourtwentynine 4 hours ago
      My plug-in hybrid (Audi Q5) has the electric connector on the rear left (driver’s side) and the gasoline inlet on the rear right. I sure plug in way more than fill up.

      The fuel side indicator is quite helpful to me.

      • apparent 2 hours ago
        Funny, my PHEV had it on the opposite side. Did you find it difficult to charge at stations, which are often designed for front-left or rear-right charge ports?
  • spenjovewkwhalo 2 hours ago
    Who knew? I always thought this was a UX lore, and it was subsequently debunked.
  • sodafountan 2 hours ago
    My Dad explained to me what this symbol meant when I got my first car. We went to get gas, and I had no idea that I pulled up on the wrong side of the pump. He indicated that the symbol told you which side of the car the gas tank was on.

    It was a 1994 Ford Taurus.

  • luckydata 2 hours ago
    That's funny, I know someone that's fairly famous in the product development world that claimed to be the inventor of the gas pump arrow. Weird thing to lie about.
  • deathanatos 4 hours ago
    What a letter. Clear, concise, just chef's kiss. I love that little indicator.
  • sumoboy 2 hours ago
    Nobody getting gas at Costco cares.
    • schmuckonwheels 2 hours ago
      Most people do, with the exception of the woman awkwardly stretching the long hose over the roof of her minivan, scratching it in the process.
  • markus_zhang 4 hours ago
    I only knew it because someone talked about that. Very useful. RIP.
  • iancmceachern 4 hours ago
    I use his arrow all the time. I'm also a Ford Truck Fan. RIP James.