What Does a Database for SSDs Look Like?

(brooker.co.za)

31 points | by charleshn 2 hours ago

8 comments

  • PunchyHamster 2 minutes ago
    > WALs, and related low-level logging details, are critical for database systems that care deeply about durability on a single system. But the modern database isn’t like that: it doesn’t depend on commit-to-disk on a single system for its durability story. Commit-to-disk on a single system is both unnecessary (because we can replicate across storage on multiple systems) and inadequate (because we don’t want to lose writes even if a single system fails).

    And then a bug crashes your database cluster all at once and now instead of missing seconds, you miss minutes, because some smartass thought "surely if I send request to 5 nodes some of that will land on disk in reasonably near future?".

    I love how this industry invents best practices that are actually good then people just invent badly researched reasons to just... not do them.

  • dist1ll 2 minutes ago
    Is there more detail on the design of the distributed multi-AZ journal? That feels like the meat of the architecture.
  • mrkeen 1 hour ago
    > Design decisions like write-ahead logs, large page sizes, and buffering table writes in bulk were built around disks where I/O was SLOW, and where sequential I/O was order(s)-of-magnitude faster than random.

    Overall speed is irrelevant, what mattered was the relative speed difference between sequential and random access.

    And since there's still a massive difference between sequential and random access with SSDs, I doubt the overall approach of using buffers needs to be reconsidered.

    • crazygringo 26 minutes ago
      Can you clarify? I thought a major benefit of SSDs is that there isn't any difference between sequential and random access. There's no physical head that needs to move.
      • threeducks 19 minutes ago
        Lets take the Samsung 9100 Pro M.2 as an example. It has a sequential read rate of ~6700 MB/s and a 4k random read rate of ~80 MB/s:

        https://i.imgur.com/t5scCa3.png

        https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/ (click on the orange double arrow to view additional columns)

        That is a latency of about 50 µs for a random read, compared to 4-5 ms latency for HDDs.

      • yyyk 12 minutes ago
        SSD controllers and VFSs are often optimized for sequential access (e.g. readahead cache) which leads to software being written to do sequential access for speed which leads to optimization for that access pattern, and so on.
      • PunchyHamster 6 minutes ago
        SSD block size is far bigger than 4kB. They still benefit from sequential write
      • b112 23 minutes ago
        Read up on IOPS, conjoined with requests for sequential reads.
        • crazygringo 19 minutes ago
          Very interesting, thank you. TIL.
  • zokier 1 hour ago
    Author could have started by surveying current state of art instead of just falsely assuming that DB devs have just been resting on the laurels for past decades. If you want to see (relational) DB for SSD just check out stuff like myrocks on zenfs+; it's pretty impressive stuff.
  • londons_explore 1 hour ago
    Median database workloads are probably doing writes of just a few bytes per transaction. Ie 'set last_login_time = now() where userid=12345'.

    Due to the interface between SSD and host OS being block based, you are forced to write a full 4k page. Which means you really still benefit from a write ahead log to batch together all those changes, at least up to page size, if not larger.

    • Sesse__ 17 minutes ago
      A write-ahead log isn't a performance tool to batch changes, it's a tool to get durability of random writes. You write your intended changes to the log, fsync it (which means you get a 4k write), then make the actual changes on disk just as if you didn't have a WAL.

      If you want to get some sort of sub-block batching, you need a structure that isn't random in the first place, for instance an LSM (where you write all of your changes sequentially to a log and then do compaction later)—and then solve your durability in some other way.

    • esperent 1 hour ago
      Don't some SSDs have 512b page size?
      • digikata 46 minutes ago
        I would guess by now none have that internally. As a rule of thumb every major flash density increase (SLC, TLC, QLC) also tended to double internal page size. There were also internal transfer performance reasons for large sizes. Low level 16k-64k flash "pages" are common, and sometimes with even larger stripes of pages due to the internal firmware sw/hw design.
        • Sesse__ 15 minutes ago
          Also due to error correction issues. Flash is notoriously unreliable, so you get bit errors _all the time_ (correcting errors is absolutely routine). And you can make more efficient error-correcting codes if you are using larger blocks. This is why HDDs went from 512 to 4096 byte blocks as well.
      • zokier 1 hour ago
        They might present 512 blocks to host, but internally the ssd almost certainly manages data in larger pages
        • cm2187 57 minutes ago
          And the filesystem will also likely be 4k block size.
  • ljosifov 38 minutes ago
    Not for SSD specifically, but I assume the compact design doesn't hurt: duckdb saved my sanity recently. Single file, columnar, with builtin compression I presume (given in columnar even simplest compression maybe very effective), and with $ duckdb -ui /path/to/data/base.duckdb opening a notebook in browser. Didn't find a single thing to dislike about duckdb - as a single user. To top it off - afaik can be zero-copy 'overlayed' on the top of a bunch of parquet binary files to provide sql over them?? (didn't try it; wd be amazing if it works well)
  • danielfalbo 1 hour ago
    Reminds me of: Databases on SSDs, Initial Ideas on Tuning (2010) [1]

    [1] https://www.dr-josiah.com/2010/08/databases-on-ssds-initial-...

  • raggi 49 minutes ago
    It may not matter for clouds with massive margins but there are substantial opportunities for optimizing wear.