"He added: "This isn't simply a story about old paper and ink. This was never just about a collectible.
"This is a testament to memory, family and the unexpected ways the past finds its way back to us."
"""
Men going extreme in sentimental when they just sold a $9M collectible :).
I've been pressing minus twice to type a dash on Mac OS for so long I've forgotten when I started. People are pointing it out to me more and more every day. I think my writing is distinct enough from an LLM for most people, but there's certainly a growing contingent that sees a telltale and assumes everything must be AI generated.
Most (all?) keyboards I've used only have a combined hyphen‐minus key (-) which is distinct from a dash (—) and isn't quite a hyphen (‐), so I get why most people don't care. All font dependent as well to add to the fun, and my examples here render differently in the textbox and the comment!
Time of day definitely plays a part, but there’s also luck/randomness to it.
Even the same time and same day of the week there will never be exactly the same set of users online, and that’s even more true with regard to the users who are choosing to look at HN’s /newest page. So pure luck can determine whether a bunch of comic book lovers see it soon after submission and give it enough votes to get on HN’s front page, or just a bunch of people who think it’s a boring story worth ignoring.
(Personally I thought it sounded like it might have interesting comments worth reading, hence my being here, but I wouldn’t have found it interesting enough to upvote if I were one of the people who saw it on the new submissions page.)
I remember a painting was discovered, and there was speculation that it was a da Vinci. It was appraised at $30,000. If it could be proven to be a da Vinci, it would be worth a million.
Do you think a sculpture by a pre-civilization human is worth more than something banged out yesterday?
Heritage has great value. It is one of the few things that cannot be manufactured at will.
Also, since its uniqueness holds its value, its value becomes a "strange attractor". You can put a lot of money into one of these artifacts, fairly sure to get most or more back. Since future buyers will have a similar assurance. So it isn't money thrown away, but money stored in a medium the provides satisfaction and pride.
Not so different from buying real estate in some exclusive area for some crazy price. It really isn't that crazy if you are likely to get your money back later if you want. Likely at a higher amount due to a growing economy pushing prices up.
Crazy would be spending millions on something unique then grinding it up.
Let's say that I gift you a suitcase with ten thousand $100 bills that seem legit, but you're not sure. How much would you be willing to pay for a proof that they are indeed legit?
With this kind of case it's impossible to read the comic book, and it doesn't protect it from UV light. I prefer using covers that block UV light. This both protects it and allows you to read it.
It really doesn't make sense to read a 9.0 condition key comic like this. If you really wanted to read it, you would be better off buying a second reading copy in terrible condition.
The cost of the reading copy would end up being less than the negative impact to the condition (and therefore value) of your mint copy from reading it a single time.
In that episode a bored Mr. Burns hires Homer as his „prank monkey”, paying him with loose cash to play cruel pranks on others and humiliate himself. Homer eventually regains his dignity after refusing to ruin the Thanksgiving day parade, even for a million dollars.
And I dare say, someone spending 9 million clams on this comic book is more than likely going to have it sitting in a very UV-protected vault somewhere ..
EDIT: Sorry - I didn’t realize that zipcomic.com is infringing the copyright - adding this note to point that out, but I will maintain my original link as intended. Better to read it on DC Universe Infinite, if you have access, or maybe it’s available through Libby or Hoopla library apps.
I can't understand why the inside covers were scanned by someone, but at crazy low res. Yes the comic is important, but even the ads are fun and a memory blast.
I have a feeling this was scanned a while back, where resolution was a balance between even being able to store it digitally due to size.
Sorry .. I didn’t realize that zipcomic.com was illegal .. I’d assumed the copyright had expired[0], and checking on DC Universe Infinite isn’t possible, since it’s geolocked and I’m not in a country deemed worthy of it. It’s probably available in Libby or Hoopla, legally.
[0] It’s still copyrighted, although it seems that will expire in a decade or so, though. I guess I’ll read it then.
back in my day, we had these buildings called 'libraries' which were filled wall-to-wall with many different types of copyright material. Mainly books, but also comics, newspapers and magazines, that you could legally read and also borrow and take home for a few days, for FREE!!
This might be genuinely the first time I can remember hearing someone say they don’t want to commit piracy. No offence, but who cares?
Especially for something from 1939.
I mean, I care (though not for something whose creators are long since dead and whom you can't support any more). But in general, I certainly try to avoid piracy. I think it's immoral and while I don't think it makes one a bad person (I myself used to pirate a ton of stuff when I had no money to buy it), I do think it's a thing that a good person should strive to avoid.
I'm not sure the reader would be breaking the law. Copyright law is about distribution, so the site would be violating the copyright by making it available. However, reading it is not distribution so simply reading it would not be an issue.
It is interesting to me that something like this can have such a high value. It speaks meanly for the our shared cultural global connection when it comes to items like these. For what purpose other than saying: “I have a …” would you buy this? Or is it the believe the price only goes up and it gets bought as an investment? I mean specifically this item with this high price.
I ask because I think the price is only as high if the item in question is still cultural relevant. So I assume you buy it and start shadow produce new Superman projects :)
I ask because I think the price is only as high if the item in question is still cultural relevant.
Les Poseuses Ensemble by Georges Seurat was sold for $149m. Very few people have heard of it, care about it, or even like it considering it's pointillism which no one buys modern versions of. The world of art and collectables is entirely rich people speculating that the price (not value) will go up in the future.
Ah damn. I forgot to add in the whole world of art collection which of course this item belongs in as well. Still baffles me how we humans can put such high prices on some items
Different tax loopholes depending on region etc, but basically like this:
I’m a billionaire earning $100M this year.
I owe $40M as taxes for that. (Too much!)
I find a dumb banana painting by a starving artist.
I buy it from him for $1000.
I wait 6 months.
I go to a museum to get it appraised by “professionals”.
I pay the professional appraiser’s wife $50K as a gift.
The appraiser says the painting is now worth $30M!
Wow that’s awesome, I have such a keen eye for art.
You know what, I’m gonna donate this painting to a museum instead because I’m such a patron of art and culture.
Oh, look at that, I get a tax rebate for the value of my donated painting ($30M)
Now I only have to pay $40M - $30M = $10M in taxes on my $100M income.
There’s more nuance to it in practice, but that’s the gist of it.
-----
Edit: For some reason I can't reply to the comments below so I'm gonna do it here.
> That wouldn't explain the price here, since in your scam the whole idea is to buy cheap and donate dear. not buy for 139M
Now we're getting in the details but it's very suspicious for an appraiser to appraise a work of art from an unknown artist at millions. But it's not that suspicious if they take Van Gogh's Starry Night which was previously appraised at $500M to now be valued at $1B. this way the deca-billionaire still gets to save his taxes while appraiser avoids suspicion.
> As far as I know, that's not how taxes work. You can't get a rebate for the amount of taxes you would have paid, you can get a deduction for the amount of money you made.
There are a lot of loopholes in the complicated tax system for the ultra-wealthy, not for us. This video (still a simple explanation in an animated way) covers a few more of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHy07B-UHkE
As far as I know, that's not how taxes work. You can't get a rebate for the amount of taxes you would have paid, you can get a deduction for the amount of money you made.
So:
You made $100M owe $40M in taxes.
Your painting is worth $30M! You have such a keen eye for art.
Now you made $130M and owe $50M in taxes.
You donate the painting, you're back at having made $100M and owing $40M.
Otherwise we'd all choose not to pay tax and donate our tax money to charitable institutions instead.
I’m pretty sure he’s right in how taxes work. There’s no moment where the value of the painting is realized but you are allowed to deduct the FMV if you make enough and if the donation goes to the charity’s exempt use (which it will if it’s a museum or whatever).
So if you buy painting for a dollar and wait a year then next year you make $3m and the painting is now worth $1m then if you donate it, your AGI is reduced to $3m-min($1m, 30% of income) = $3m-$900k.
You don’t count the appreciation of the painting as income. You don’t even count it as LTCG if you don’t sell it.
I think it also applies to stock option awards. When the startup I was at was acquired some people were talking about it.
Dunno why I can't reply to your other comment explaining what you mean but hot damn. False evaluation of a cheap painting to save on taxes? That's mental.
"only for thing people would legitimately like to have."
Whilst that may be true for the most part, much of the art dealt nowadays is never displayed, just stored somewhere incredibly tax efficient until it's value has gone up enough to warrant selling.
The price is determined by the depths of pockets of buyers. High price for such items means only that too many stupid people have too much money in our time.
I have a b&w photo of my (considerably) older brother, from the early 1960s, reading a pile of comic books a foot high. The only cover visible is Spiderman #4. When I was a kid I used to stare at that picture and dream.
I had a British edition of Star Wars #1 at my parent's house that an English friend gave me when we were kids back in the early 80's. I always wondered what it was worth, as I could only find price guides for the US edition. But when I finally got around to go get it a couple years ago, it was nowhere to be found. So the question became only academic.
Does anyone know why this particular issue is so valuable? I'm assuming it's some mix of investment, timing, sentimental value, and rarity. But which ones particularly?
the article explicitly states that this original Superman #1 is the highest graded copy of all-time
it’s valuable for the same reason the mona lisa is valuable. it’s iconic, it is a singular object, it is one of a kind, it is a stable investment vehicle. they ain’t making more of them.
Stable investment vehicle I am not so sure. I think an index fund or even gold will outperform it over 100 years. Superman comics rely on people giving a shit about superman which will fade over time. Superman isnt a big thing for gen z for example.
I always wonder exactly how difficult it would be to get the paper, ink, staples, etc exactly right. I'm sure it would be difficult but 9m is a big payoff if you can.
I assume the content isn't as important as the fact the object itself is the original. Original paper, original ink, original release date. The object itself comes from the original factory, survived through time etc. I would expect some tests will verify it uses the correct paper, has the signs of age, etc.
Even if you could duplicate it down to the molecule I would assume it wouldn't hold the same value since it doesn't have the same history. Assuming you'd want to sell it in good faith as a replica.
An earlier submission of the auction house source had some details like it's one of only seven copies that have a grading score over 6.0 (it scored a record 9.0), and one of only 100 ever of any quality ever auctioned there.
What's missing in the story is when did she buy it and how much she spent... Maybe it was an expensive purchase at that point already, like in 5 digits, and she invested a considerable portion of her savings?
> Their mother had held on to the comic books since she and her brother bought them between the Great Depression and the beginning of World War Two, Heritage said.
It seems unlikely that in that time frame it would have been a 5 digit purchase. It still may have been a significant proportion of liquid cash or net worth though. I think it'd be an interesting detail to have too.
It came out in 1939, which is in that time frame, so she probably bought it at a newsstand for the 10 cent cover price. I could be mistaken, but I don't think there was any real second-hand market for comic books at the time.
What are the odds it's a forgery? Couldn't find any details on their grading method and how it was "positively identified to originate from the first print run of the issue" [0].
For how they could tell it was from the first run, it says in the article you referenced:
> For decades, Allen says, nobody knew of a way to distinguish which copies came from that initial run. Then a grader noticed a key difference in a small in-house promotional spot advertising the upcoming Action Comics No. 14. In the first run, those ads included text reading “On sale June 2nd.” Subsequent print runs had updated it to “Now on sale.”
I know nothing of this world of comics, I guess because it is essentially part of the US culture and did not penetrate much of Europe.
There has been a number of investigative shows arguing the valuation of collectibles in general (comics included) is largely driven by money laundering.
Is it some kind of conspiracy theory of is this legit ?
As usual, generalising all of Europe based on your individual country is a mistake as there are some Euro counties where comics are quite popular. France, Belgium, Italy and the UK all have thriving native comic book industries, and I have Swedish friends who tell me Donald Duck comics are very popular there.
I imagine a pristine 1st edition Tintin or Asterix would be quite valuable.
"This is a testament to memory, family and the unexpected ways the past finds its way back to us." """ Men going extreme in sentimental when they just sold a $9M collectible :).
This is a testament to outsourcing, laziness and the unexpected ways technology finds ways to change every press release.”
Most (all?) keyboards I've used only have a combined hyphen‐minus key (-) which is distinct from a dash (—) and isn't quite a hyphen (‐), so I get why most people don't care. All font dependent as well to add to the fun, and my examples here render differently in the textbox and the comment!
https://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news...
Even the same time and same day of the week there will never be exactly the same set of users online, and that’s even more true with regard to the users who are choosing to look at HN’s /newest page. So pure luck can determine whether a bunch of comic book lovers see it soon after submission and give it enough votes to get on HN’s front page, or just a bunch of people who think it’s a boring story worth ignoring.
(Personally I thought it sounded like it might have interesting comments worth reading, hence my being here, but I wouldn’t have found it interesting enough to upvote if I were one of the people who saw it on the new submissions page.)
For the same item.
Crazy.
Heritage has great value. It is one of the few things that cannot be manufactured at will.
Also, since its uniqueness holds its value, its value becomes a "strange attractor". You can put a lot of money into one of these artifacts, fairly sure to get most or more back. Since future buyers will have a similar assurance. So it isn't money thrown away, but money stored in a medium the provides satisfaction and pride.
Not so different from buying real estate in some exclusive area for some crazy price. It really isn't that crazy if you are likely to get your money back later if you want. Likely at a higher amount due to a growing economy pushing prices up.
Crazy would be spending millions on something unique then grinding it up.
If that was a true feeling, then they wouldn't sell it away as soon as they find it, as if it is something they must dispose off immediately.
Sales culture is turning all men into drama queens.
The cost of the reading copy would end up being less than the negative impact to the condition (and therefore value) of your mint copy from reading it a single time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii4Msc9ESEw
https://www.zipcomic.com/superman-1939-issue-1
And I dare say, someone spending 9 million clams on this comic book is more than likely going to have it sitting in a very UV-protected vault somewhere ..
EDIT: Sorry - I didn’t realize that zipcomic.com is infringing the copyright - adding this note to point that out, but I will maintain my original link as intended. Better to read it on DC Universe Infinite, if you have access, or maybe it’s available through Libby or Hoopla library apps.
I have a feeling this was scanned a while back, where resolution was a balance between even being able to store it digitally due to size.
If I was lucky enough to have to defend say a billion dollars from diluting over decades, a priceless comic sounds like a decent acquisition
Until they pass away and somebody finds it then puts it for sale, and so on...
While you could store your collectable in a vault, many people enjoy displaying their collectables.
[0] It’s still copyrighted, although it seems that will expire in a decade or so, though. I guess I’ll read it then.
It’s a bit hyperbolic. It’s a webpage of a comic book.
Les Poseuses Ensemble by Georges Seurat was sold for $149m. Very few people have heard of it, care about it, or even like it considering it's pointillism which no one buys modern versions of. The world of art and collectables is entirely rich people speculating that the price (not value) will go up in the future.
I’m a billionaire earning $100M this year.
I owe $40M as taxes for that. (Too much!)
I find a dumb banana painting by a starving artist.
I buy it from him for $1000.
I wait 6 months.
I go to a museum to get it appraised by “professionals”.
I pay the professional appraiser’s wife $50K as a gift.
The appraiser says the painting is now worth $30M!
Wow that’s awesome, I have such a keen eye for art.
You know what, I’m gonna donate this painting to a museum instead because I’m such a patron of art and culture.
Oh, look at that, I get a tax rebate for the value of my donated painting ($30M)
Now I only have to pay $40M - $30M = $10M in taxes on my $100M income.
There’s more nuance to it in practice, but that’s the gist of it.
-----
Edit: For some reason I can't reply to the comments below so I'm gonna do it here.
> That wouldn't explain the price here, since in your scam the whole idea is to buy cheap and donate dear. not buy for 139M
Now we're getting in the details but it's very suspicious for an appraiser to appraise a work of art from an unknown artist at millions. But it's not that suspicious if they take Van Gogh's Starry Night which was previously appraised at $500M to now be valued at $1B. this way the deca-billionaire still gets to save his taxes while appraiser avoids suspicion.
> As far as I know, that's not how taxes work. You can't get a rebate for the amount of taxes you would have paid, you can get a deduction for the amount of money you made.
There are a lot of loopholes in the complicated tax system for the ultra-wealthy, not for us. This video (still a simple explanation in an animated way) covers a few more of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHy07B-UHkE
So:
You made $100M owe $40M in taxes.
Your painting is worth $30M! You have such a keen eye for art.
Now you made $130M and owe $50M in taxes.
You donate the painting, you're back at having made $100M and owing $40M.
Otherwise we'd all choose not to pay tax and donate our tax money to charitable institutions instead.
So if you buy painting for a dollar and wait a year then next year you make $3m and the painting is now worth $1m then if you donate it, your AGI is reduced to $3m-min($1m, 30% of income) = $3m-$900k.
You don’t count the appreciation of the painting as income. You don’t even count it as LTCG if you don’t sell it.
I think it also applies to stock option awards. When the startup I was at was acquired some people were talking about it.
The entire NFT thing would work if it were restricted to things people want, even if that only amounts to bragging rights.
Somewhere along the way people lost track of the fact that being able to trade something doesn't denote value in itself
Whilst that may be true for the most part, much of the art dealt nowadays is never displayed, just stored somewhere incredibly tax efficient until it's value has gone up enough to warrant selling.
https://theswisstimes.ch/unlocking-the-secrets-of-the-geneva...
Needless to say, I kept all my old comics.
it’s valuable for the same reason the mona lisa is valuable. it’s iconic, it is a singular object, it is one of a kind, it is a stable investment vehicle. they ain’t making more of them.
I always wonder exactly how difficult it would be to get the paper, ink, staples, etc exactly right. I'm sure it would be difficult but 9m is a big payoff if you can.
Even if you could duplicate it down to the molecule I would assume it wouldn't hold the same value since it doesn't have the same history. Assuming you'd want to sell it in good faith as a replica.
It seems unlikely that in that time frame it would have been a 5 digit purchase. It still may have been a significant proportion of liquid cash or net worth though. I think it'd be an interesting detail to have too.
[0] https://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news...
> For decades, Allen says, nobody knew of a way to distinguish which copies came from that initial run. Then a grader noticed a key difference in a small in-house promotional spot advertising the upcoming Action Comics No. 14. In the first run, those ads included text reading “On sale June 2nd.” Subsequent print runs had updated it to “Now on sale.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_Auctions#Controversie...
There has been a number of investigative shows arguing the valuation of collectibles in general (comics included) is largely driven by money laundering.
Is it some kind of conspiracy theory of is this legit ?
I imagine a pristine 1st edition Tintin or Asterix would be quite valuable.