Shortest-possible walking tour to 81,998 bars in South Korea

(math.uwaterloo.ca)

200 points | by geeknews 5 hours ago

15 comments

  • rurban 1 hour ago
    So NP is like P again. I learned in school 13 is the max and one of my algebra professors advanced it to 15 (in the 80ies). Then came 20, then came 20.000, this is 80k with proof, and at the World TSP page we see the record was 1m.

    http://webhotel4.ruc.dk/~keld/research/LKH/

    The biggest proven optimum is for 3178031 right now.

    This should be really done with CUDA, not plain C, btw.

    • eduardosalaz 38 minutes ago
      There is tons of work to do on running optimization algorithms in GPU. In its current form, Branch and Bound and Cutting Planes do not gain an advantage if implemented in CUDA. There is a new algorithm, PDLP, which is implementable in GPUs but it is still in early stages. For more, see https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/cuopt-open-source/.
    • JohnKemeny 33 minutes ago
      The thing is that Euclidean TSP needs a lot of data to encode hard instances.

      N=15 was even considered solved in the 60s, and N=20 has never been considered large instances, especially not of Euclidean TSP.

      I cannot see how anyone could say 13 is the max: you need 100k memory slots and 1M comparisons. This has been trivial for quite some time.

  • notesinthefield 4 hours ago
    I am overwhelmed with the thought of nearly 82 thousand bars within a country roughly the size of Ohio.
    • bbno4 19 minutes ago
      americans always compare massive cities to empty states
    • lifthrasiir 3 hours ago
      That country has a population of 52 million, i.e. about 5 times Ohio.
    • ekianjo 4 minutes ago
      And South Korea has one of the highest rates of stomach cancer.
    • dyauspitr 4 hours ago
      NYC that is like 20 miles across has 11,000 locations that serve alcohol.
    • kijin 2 hours ago
      Looks like they got their hands on a dataset of every restaurant that is licensed to serve alcohol -- or at least a decent subset of such restaurants, filtered by menu or whatever.

      I checked a few dots near where I live and they're all fried chicken joints. Yeah, we do love chimaek around here. :)

      • yard2010 47 minutes ago
        In korea after a certain hour every restaurant, karaoke, PCBang, and hotteok parlor is basically a bar :)

        God I miss this place so much <3

    • zeckalpha 3 hours ago
      How many bars do you expect are in Ohio?
  • blt 1 hour ago
    Branch-and-bound is an algorithm "from the book" to me. Fundamentally very simple, provided you view the LP solver as a black box, but incredibly useful.
  • noduerme 3 hours ago
    It's strange that they don't mention the total distance. I understand that the point-to-point travel time is what they're solving for, but it would be interesting to know what the actual distance of travel was, if for no other reason than calculating caloric burn. But then you could also see how much it deviated from the shortest-distance path.
  • flerchin 3 hours ago
    Oh no, looks like a few new bars opened up, and a few others closed. Time to recalculate.
  • OsrsNeedsf2P 4 hours ago
    I'm impressed they found a dataset this hard, but not much harder. It's a delicate balance between beating the last Traveling Salesman hiscore (Netherlands), and never finishing your compute
    • omoikane 1 hour ago
      In the "computations" page[1], the table lists the Netherlands computation as costing 97 CPU years with 6 months of elapsed time, while the Korean bars costs 44 years of CPU time and 3 months of elapsed time. I can't tell if the two problems were solved using the same hardware.

      [1] https://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/tsp/korea/computation.html

    • bjornsing 2 hours ago
      Do we know they didn’t just prune problematic bars from the dataset until they found a one with a solution?
      • dumbfounder 2 hours ago
        You and I don’t know. But this is hacker news so there is probably somebody here keeping them honest.
  • DennisL123 50 minutes ago
    OSRM lead dev here. Love to see this large of an instance being solved.
  • marvinkennis 2 hours ago
    It would suck to get to bar 51,248 only to find out it's now permanently closed
  • bjornsing 2 hours ago
    Would be nice if they could briefly describe the algorithm. Sounds like they’ve turned the TSP into an integer linear program that they can do branch and bound on, but I’m not sure.
  • mofunnyman 4 hours ago
    If you spent 40 years of your life on this path, you would still be visiting 5.616 bars per day. Nuts.
    • devonkim 2 hours ago
      That’s also not considering whether they’re open or existing anymore after so much time has passed.
    • kirubakaran 3 hours ago
      Less than 6 bars a day is pretty doable! :-p
      • Smar 3 hours ago
        Isn't comma the decimal separator ;)
        • throwaway019254 1 hour ago
          It depends on which part of the world you live in.
        • speedgoose 53 minutes ago
          It’s not that many bars.
  • kopirgan 3 hours ago
    Very interesting..

    Is anything supposed to happen if you click on those red circles? I was hoping it will show name or other info!

  • labster 4 hours ago
    They call it the Traveling Salesman Problem, but it sounds more like the Drunkard’s Walk to me.
    • The28thDuck 4 hours ago
      I’d like to call it a stumble :)
  • awesome_dude 1 hour ago
    Kids, we're going on a road trip!
  • srcreigh 4 hours ago
    Title is incorrect. 178 days is the walking time of the optimal tour, not how long it took to solve for the best route
    • modeless 4 hours ago
      3 months, using 44 CPU-years, is that time.
    • dang 3 hours ago
      (Submitted title was "Shortest walking tour to 81,998 bars in Korea — TSP solved in 178 days".)
  • moralestapia 3 hours ago
    >Our computation produced a tour together with a proof that it is a shortest-possible route [...]

    Proof nowhere to be found.

    Waterloo-ers are nice people but I see an increasing trend of them just lying to get some cred. Come on guys, you don't have to follow the valley model that much.

    • inasio 2 hours ago
      Not sure what you expected to get. The Concorde TSP solver is an exact solver that uses branch and bound search, it will return either a solution with a specified bound or the optimal bound. They provide the dataset and the solution they found (and I believe their solver is open source), if you don't believe them you can go ahead and find a better tour.
      • 7e 2 hours ago
        I also expected to get an actual proof.
        • inasio 2 hours ago
          Proof in this case is that the upper bound and the lower bound of the solver converged. This is not like a SAT solver where the solution itself can be trivially evaluated to verify the solution, it requires trusting that the solver does what it's supposed to be doing, similar to what happens when you solve a MILP with Gurobi or CPLEX.