23 comments

  • mbesto 2 hours ago
    Tangentially related - I recently got the holy grail of eSIM travel router setup:

    - GLiNet Mudi v2: https://store.gl-inet.com/products/mudi-v2-portable-4g-lte-r...

    - EIOT Physical eSim https://store.gl-inet.com/products/esim-experience-seamless-...

    - 20GB Worldwide Airalo for 365 days ($69): https://www.airalo.com/global-esim/discover-365days-20gb

    Buy the airalo esim on my iphone. Download the QR code. Upload it to the mudi router. Activate it there. Voila! I then wireguard back to my home internet in case I need a US on the router. Can also use tailscale, but if my gf wants US internet its helpful.

    https://docs.gl-inet.com/router/en/4/tutorials/how_to_set_up...

    • brotchie 1 hour ago
      Nice, thanks for the reccomendations, the Mudi V2 looks great.

      Any limitations / bumps in the road, or it "just works"?

  • sunaookami 8 hours ago
    Haha what a coincidence, I bought a 9eSIM adapter a few weeks ago! There is a new eSIM-only card in Germany where you get 3 GB of data plus unlimited SMS and calls per month for free. To order it I had to use Frida and the Android emulator to fool the app into thinking the device had an eSIM. After that you have to do some JavaScript shenanigans on the website to get the QR code. But after that, everything works flawlessly with the eSIM adapter. The card is called "GMX FreePhone".
    • briodf 5 hours ago
      3GB of Data + Unlimited SMS and Calls for free sounds very nice? Can you share the name of the provider so that we can add it to our eSIM comparison for Germany https://www.monito.com/en/esim-plans-compared
      • Alive-in-2025 1 hour ago
        What's the reason for these lower prices? Data only 5gb/month for $5 or $6 seems to be the summary of the link, amazing! I think the answer is there is lots of competition and they've driven the price down to this point. That's an incredible price.

        Of course this would be immensely useful. For example, can I put this in my vehicle with built in maps (or just have a hotspot in my vehicle to use with a tablet). As a price comparison, in the us there are some EVs that charge $100/year for basically this, most charge a lot more. That's $8.33/month, so only a bit more than $6 or 7. But in the us it's hard or impossible get anything that low for just raw service, I can't find anything like that.

    • larusso 1 hour ago
      What’s your use case for the adapter. To use the free service on a non eSIM capable phone? Or for some other stuff? Thanks for the info about the provider. Didn’t hear about the offering yet.
    • fullspectrumdev 6 hours ago
      How much registration is required? I can see this being useful for some things :)
      • dkjaudyeqooe 6 hours ago
        It requires that you give them your bank account details.

        The stated reason is because you can call premium services and run up a charges even with a free service.

        • sunaookami 5 hours ago
          Yeah this, and you need to give them your full address because you have to enter a code that is sent via (physical) mail. Also it has the "Datenautomatik" enabled by default where new data packages are bought automatically when the limit is reached but you can turn this off (it's on by default).
    • Lanolderen 8 hours ago
      Thanks for mentioning the provider.
  • mfkp 3 hours ago
    These have been around for a while.

    Alternatives:

    https://esim.5ber.com/

    https://esim.me/

    https://jmp.chat/esim-adapter

    • mrshadowgoose 9 minutes ago
      Just an anecdotal single data point:

      I've tried the esim.me and the jmp offerings in the same set of phones.

      esim.me was generally quite glitchy and ultimately just stopped working. The requirement of having an esim.me account also just rubbed me the wrong way.

      jmp has been a seamless experience so far.

    • stavros 21 minutes ago
      Which one is the best of these? Do they work in every country? I can't tell if the do some internet-connected magic or if they just program the SIM so that it appears like a bog-standard SIM to the phone.
      • mfkp 19 minutes ago
        I've personally never tried since my phone supports e-sim but people on the internet report good findings with the 5ber card (note that you need the "Ultra" card for iPhone, the other ones are android only).
  • Fischgericht 6 hours ago
    In case the original author reads this:

    Depending on what 4G/LTE modem/chip your laptop it is using (it must be based on a Qualcomm SoC which 99% are), there are and I can share documents on how you can do the provisioning directly on the Laptop the SIM card is in.

    The feature is present in the stock Qualcomm firmware bundle, but vendors like Quectel, Sierra etc may decide if they include the feature or not.

    I know this because it is on our dev team To-Do List to implement that for a Linux daemon :)

  • notpushkin 9 hours ago
    This is neat. I’ve only heard about ESTK [0] and sysmoEUICC by sysmocom [1].

    ESTK supports a couple neat features, like cloud provisioning of profiles [2] (which makes it possible to add eSIM profiles on iPhone, too, not just Android).

    [0]: https://estk.me/

    [1]: https://shop.sysmocom.de/sysmoEUICC1-eUICC-for-consumer-eSIM...

    [2]: https://docs.estk.me/manual/download/cloud-enhance/index.htm...

    • singpolyma3 7 hours ago
      Note cloud provisioning does require an active data esim profile on the card already
      • lxgr 7 hours ago
        Interesting, do you know why that is the case? Does it use BIP as a communication channel, and the iPhone doesn't route that over Wi-Fi?
  • ewuhic 8 hours ago
    I always wondered - can you have no roaming if you use eSIM with wifi calling and an exit node in country where eSIM is issued? So, basically:

    - you bought eSIM in Germany

    - you are currently in US

    - you use tailscale with exit node at your apartment in Germany

    - voila, no roaming when you call German mobile lines

    Right?

    [EDIT FOR ADDITIONAL QUESTION]

    If I have troubles receiving SMSs from Germany to German number while in US, would wifi calling icrease the chances of receiving the said SMSs?

    • phh 3 hours ago
      I'm implementing a fully libre open-source vowifi/volte client for Android that runs in JVM sandbox, rather than untrustable modem. During my development I went through a protocol detail that I was too lazy to implement: you're supposed to announce which is the last 4g cell you saw even when doing Vowifi. I just hardcoded a value and forgot about it.

      And then, I get a user who tells me that their carrier is saying they are roaming, even though they don't. I'm a tad clueless at first, because they are the network, they ought to know (this even happen over VoLTE). I send them an updated implementation that reports the correct cell. And then they receive a "welcome back" SMS.

      Anyway, it's possible that your carrier can do abroad vowifi, you just need your vowifi client to lie as to where it is.

    • winterswift 8 hours ago
      In my experience, wi-fi calling works as if on the home network, regardless of IP location/endpoint. So this would work similarly with an eSIM.
      • lxgr 7 hours ago
        At least Vodafone Germany intentionally blocks (or used to block) foreign IPs for their gateway. I'll always trust them to needlessly ruin perfectly fine technologies.

        Fortunately, as far as I remember at least iPhones route VoWiFi traffic over a VPN, if any is connected, so that's one way to still use it abroad.

        • miki123211 1 hour ago
          This is actually less unreasonable than it seems at first.

          The Vo WiFi spec only defines handover procedures for networks that implement VoLTE, but VoLTE roaming was historically almost nonexistent, although the situation is improving somewhat.

          This means that if you go out of range of your WiFi router, your cell phone has no idea how to request a handover from the network, and the call drops.

      • daveoc64 6 hours ago
        As noted by other commenters, some carriers (I think all of the UK carriers) use IP-based geoblocking to ensure that Wi-Fi Calling only works when using an IP address registered in the UK.
      • netsharc 8 hours ago
        I have a dual-SIM Pixel 7, the eSIM "slot" has a data-only subscription, the other slot has a pay-as-you-go SIM that I can make phone calls with (I make so few phone calls to actual lines, that having credit that I can top-up every few months is much more cheaper than paying monthly for free minutes). The PAYG SIM offers WiFi calling, and the phone appears to even offer "WiFi"-calling over the data connection, for a much better audio quality.
    • aimazon 7 hours ago
      > If I have troubles receiving SMSs from Germany to German number while in US, would wifi calling icrease the chances of receiving the said SMSs?

      I'm not up to date on the state of messaging infrastructure but it used to be the case that some providers would offer non-standard methods for sending messages over their network to intermediary providers. Rather than sending an SMS to a number, a business would ask the intermediary to send a message and the intermediary would use the non-standard method provided by the network provider. The non-standard methods work fine if you're connected to the network directly but if you're overseas that will not be the case and so you can't receive these non-standard messages. Don't quote me on any of that, though.

      • lxgr 6 hours ago
        The non-standard method is to get the SMS to a delivering SMSC (which is the same network component that's used for mobile originated SMS delivery, which is standardized).

        Once it's enqueued in an SMSC, there is no more distinction between how it got there, as far as I understand (at least downstream from there; delivery reports to the sender might again be proprietary for non-mobile senders).

        > The non-standard methods work fine if you're connected to the network directly but if you're overseas that will not be the case and so you can't receive these non-standard messages.

        This is actually not particular to the way in which SMS have been enqueued, but rather to how they're delivered: The sending SMSC has to "dial" pretty deep into both the recipient's home and visited network in the original implementation. This means that they need a commercial agreement and technical integration with both of them.

        Usually, problems/inconsistencies occur when they do know how to deliver to the recipient number's home network (because if they can't, they'd probably have rejected the message at SMSC submission time), but are then redirected to a given visited network with which they don't have interconnectivity.

        This problem (and some others, including serious privacy concerns) is solved by a newer technology called "SMS home routing". In that model, there's something like a proxy in the recipient's home network that essentially poses as the receiving phone to the sending SMSC, and then uses the home network's resources to do actual delivery. This usually leads to more consistent experiences, and allows things like a "received message log". (Without a home router, the recipient's home network never sees the message content when the recipient is roaming!)

    • lxgr 7 hours ago
      Many providers actually let you use Wi-Fi calling without any VPN, i.e. they don't arbitrarily restrict the set of allowed IPs that can connect to their Internet gateway.

      > If I have troubles receiving SMSs from Germany to German number while in US, would wifi calling icrease the chances of receiving the said SMSs?

      Probably not, unless your provider supports inbound and outbound SMS via ISM. If you have an iPhone, you can check whether yours does in Settings -> About -> Tap the name of your carrier. (If it lists "Voice and SMS", you might be good; if it's only "voice" or nothing at all, SMS will go over the visited network.)

    • Gormo 7 hours ago
      Alternatively, use a global eSIM purely for data access, then use your phone as a SIP client (or use something like Google Voice) for PSTN access, eschewing the mobile network entirely.
    • gruez 8 hours ago
    • Ghoelian 8 hours ago
      Are there even roaming costs at all when calling over wifi? Would make sense to me if there weren't, since you're not using the mobile infrastructure you would be paying for.

      Then again I could also easily see telcos charging roaming anyway, just because they can.

      • miki123211 1 hour ago
        Calls can freely be handed over between VoLTE and VoWiFi, depending on signal quality, and that often happens without the user's knowledge or explicit consent.

        This means that "no roaming costs over WiFi" is a very dicy proposition, as a carrier either needs to restrict handovers (and I don't even know if that's allowed by the spec, not to mention the implications of dropping calls when going out of WiFi Range), cover the costs themselves, or move them onto the unsuspecting user if a handover happens.

      • simtel20 7 hours ago
        There's also a technical hurdle of the telco can't know where you're coming from over the Internet. The terminate your end of the vowifi call and from there they only charge for the connection as though it originated in their network, which is all they know for sure (that is their SIM and your account that's authenticated from somewhere in the world)
        • lxgr 7 hours ago
          Well, I know at least one provider that looks at your IP's country registration and will block you if they believe it's not domestic: Vodafone Germany. I wouldn't wish their service upon my worst enemies.
          • simtel20 4 hours ago
            Sounds terrible. So yeah, I guess they can make an educated guess, and initiate a demoralizing cat and mouse game with their customers.
  • oniony 8 hours ago
    Was "the SIM's packaging" not just an original credit-card sized SIM? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_card#Full-size_SIM, with punch-outs for newer formats?
    • arccy 7 hours ago
      i think it meant the rims for the punch outs were the best for keeping a nano sim in the reader stable (which presumably took one of the larger formats).
  • hintymad 7 hours ago
    I wonder if there's a reversed solution: using physical SIM card on devices that have only eSIMs. The use case: recent fewer versions of iPhone support only eSIMs, yet we will need a physical sim when traveling in China (yes yes, one could use roaming. It's just that with a China phone number, one can do more).
    • lxgr 7 hours ago
      It apparently can be done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twFC0A_m0KI

      Supposedly the people doing this at scale (for grey imports?) even de-solder the eSIM module and resell it, but I have my doubts about that part of the story.

      • 05 6 hours ago
        Sure you can do it if there’s a module to desolder, but many phones will just use TrustZone/Secure Enclave and you’re not desoldering that…
        • lxgr 6 hours ago
          Are there any TrustZone based eSIM implementations yet? I've heard about plans for a couple of times but haven't been following that closely.

          I'm not sure if iPhones still have a physical module; it would make a lot of sense for Apple to combine the eSIM implementation with the payments secure element (I think they hold some patents to that extent), but I'm not sure if they already do that.

    • rendaw 6 hours ago
      Why do you need a physical sim in China? Are there just no esim providers? Or is it something deeper?
      • jtokoph 6 hours ago
        Apparently there aren't any eSIMs in China that include a phone number. I'm not sure why.

        I think this is why Apple releases the latest iPhones with physical SIM trays in China while the latest iPhones in North America are eSIM only

      • emnudge 4 hours ago
        It’s to connect phone numbers to identities. Getting a physical sim in China involves going in person to a store where they keep your passport and a mugshot (you hold a paper with your number on it) in a database.

        There’s no free WiFi without requiring a phone number. It allows the government to connect internet users to real identities.

      • __m 6 hours ago
        I only know eSIM providers for data
        • gruez 5 hours ago
          Most "travel esims" are data-only, but there are definitely domestic carriers/MVNOs that provide voice + text, and provide esims.
  • singpolyma3 7 hours ago
    If you use the JMP eSIM Adapter you can use a fully open source app, or even your own build of the app or whatever you like.
    • sunaookami 5 hours ago
      You can use OpenEUICC with 9esim. They just rebrand it and publish it as their own thing. https://gitea.angry.im/PeterCxy/OpenEUICC
    • craftkiller 7 hours ago
      Thank you! I came to the comments to find the most open version of this. Unfortunately, the JMP eSIM's order form is broken so I cannot purchase their device (it never asks for city/state and then the order form errors out with "City or state/province not specified")
      • singpolyma3 4 hours ago
        It seems that bringing up the city/state box after you enter zip code is being slow right now. if you wait a bit do they show up for you after entering zip code?
        • craftkiller 2 hours ago
          You're right! It took 7 minutes according to chrome dev tools but the state and city did eventually show up. Then my credit card's fraud protection declined the order so I had to go back and watch the spinner spin for another 5.2 minutes but I eventually was able to purchase one.
          • singpolyma3 1 hour ago
            sorry for the trouble. glad you got it to work.
  • yapyap 9 hours ago
    I like the initiative and I’m not against experimenting, it’s fun.

    But why would you ever want an eSIM in a SIM device, I’d assume it’s more often the other way around

    • orisho 9 hours ago
      You may find yourself in that situation if you have a device that only supports SIMs, and you can't use any of the cheap travel esim providers with it. For travel, you would replace your local SIM with the 9eSIM, and be able to switch providers depending on destination. The difference can be huge in some countries, where a local provider's travel plan can be 30 to 50 USD, while a equivalent on an ESIM provider is just $4.

      I live in such a country and have parents with older phones who can't use esims, so the value is obvious to me. :)

      • doix 8 hours ago
        In which countries are eSIMs cheaper? I have never encountered this in Africa or in Asia. I was just in Vietnam, a local SIM was probably 50% cheaper than anything I could find on esimdb.

        Currently I'm in Georgia, unlimited internet for a week is 9 GEL, or around 3ish USD per week. The cheapest on esdimdb is 19 USD for unlimited internet for a week.

        What we usually do when we travel is buy the cheapest eSIM, usually on some introductory offer to get like 1GB for 1 USD (so we can order taxis, maps etc), then go to a local provider and get a local SIM.

        One place where an eSIM was a good choice was China. I don't quite understand how it works, but it seems if you use an eSIM in China you get around the great firewall without needing a VPN.

        I wish eSIMs were cheaper, so I wouldn't have to deal with the headache of doing that. When going to local providers, sometimes they offer an eSIM option, but there is usually no price difference.

        • lxgr 6 hours ago
          > I don't quite understand how it works, but it seems if you use an eSIM in China you get around the great firewall without needing a VPN.

          That's just the default for most mobile data services, eSIM or physical SIM. Your home network provides Internet connectivity. "Local breakout" (where you get an IP of the visited network) has never really taken off for various reasons, one being that people actually like being able to access everything they also can at home.

          I also strongly suspect that this is why iPhones in China don't have any eSIM capability.

      • nico 9 hours ago
        Currently traveling, and the savings are real. Although in this case it’s the opposite: travel eSIMs rates are about $80 for data for 30 days, whereas a cheap local prepaid SIM card is $8-16 (but with no eSIM option)
        • mrg2k8 6 hours ago
          I've encountered this in Cape Verde and ended buying a local SIM off the street for a fraction of the price.
        • klausa 9 hours ago
          Out of curiosity: where are you traveling with data that expensive?
          • nico 9 hours ago
            The service is called Holafly, it was advertised on the plane, and my travel mate bought it without hesitating (because of the convenience of an eSIM, even though they didn’t get a local number)
            • gruez 8 hours ago
              >it was advertised on the plane

              That's basically guaranteed to be overpriced. Anything prominently advertised means you're going to be paying for the advertising budget.

              Also, it's "unlimited data", which probably makes it more expensive than it needs to be due to adverse selection. For instance it charges $50 for 15 days in europe, but on esimdb[1] you can easily find esims for just over $1/gb. It might still be worth it if you're using absurd amounts of data, but citing it as an example of esims being very expensive doesn't really make sense.

              https://esimdb.com/region/europe

              • prmoustache 6 hours ago
                I don't know about europe but 40 to 80usd for 15GB for 30 days in Mexico is completely crazy when you can get a physical telcel sim card with 25GB and unlimited data for whatsapp and all major social medias, which means you can easily go for the smaller 10GB (15usd) or 7GB (10usd) choice if the most you will transfer is on social medias and whatsapp.

                https://esimdb.com/mexico

              • instagib 7 hours ago
                I found my google maps app for navigation and image translation via google lens/translator app ate up a ton of my data. I had to turn off off a setting or two to reduce the maps data.
            • klausa 9 hours ago
              I meant the physical destination, not the service :D
      • prmoustache 6 hours ago
        I expected to use an eSIM when I went abroad for a month last year. It turned out the providers offering "travel eSIM" are 2 to 4 times more expensive compared to buying a prepaid physical sim at the counter valid for 30 days.
        • dboreham 4 hours ago
          Quick note that "the counter" may not exist or be hard/time consuming to track down and then there may be language barriers and also identity proof requirements that you can't meet. So service that's available and working as soon as your boots hit the ground do have some value.
      • pjmlp 9 hours ago
        I have not yet traveled to a place that doesn't have cheap prepaid SIM on the Airport, or some Internet cafes.
        • herbst 9 hours ago
          Cheap is very subjective. There is always a way cheaper Esim option, especially if you have high usage.

          Not the common Esim provider spamming all of Google. But you often find local Esim resellers for local networks.

          Writing this from my Caravan WiFi, with a small streaming computer, 2 mobiles and a laptop using about 250 GB a month :)

          • notpushkin 8 hours ago
            In my experience, getting an eSIM is usually cheaper than the airport SIM card plans, but often there are cheaper plans available when you get to the city. In any case, having both options is nice!
            • gruez 8 hours ago
              >getting an eSIM is usually cheaper than the airport SIM card plans, but often there are cheaper plans available when you get to the city

              I find that for light data users (ie. < 5GB), esims are always almost cheaper than local sims, except for maybe in developing countries.

              • notpushkin 7 hours ago
                I think it depends on how you define “developing countries”!

                I’m currently in Thailand and I got 6 GB for about $2 total (50 baht for the SIM with 3 GB for 3 days, another 20 baht top up for another 3 GB / 3 days). I did use eSIM for about a month before that though (I just wanted a local number to order some stuff from Lazada).

                Another example (also from Southeast Asia, FWIW): Malaysian SIMs are also cheaper, though topping them up is painful so I’d personally stick with an eSIM there.

    • harha 9 hours ago
      One announce with eSIM is that you can’t move them freely, despite being advertised as equivalent. Depending on the provider it can get quite complicated (physical visit in store, fees) to move to another device.
      • londons_explore 9 hours ago
        Could one make an all-software sim card emulator which would enable this?

        Or does the esim spec have some kind of DRM to require you to use physical hardware with an embedded yet secret-to-you key?

    • arghwhat 9 hours ago
      Chinese iPhone has no eSIM support (they have dual SIM instead), IoT stuff like alarms tend to use SIM slots, LTE/5G routers tend to use SIM, etc.

      Until eSIM provisioning for embedded devices is sorted out and popularized there will be plenty of reasons to adapt to a regular SIM.

    • herbst 9 hours ago
      I got a second hand mobile router with SIM support, but very good hardware for 50$. I ordered a Esim adapter SIM for $20 and just switch to the cheapest network wherever I am.

      Easily saved $300 to a comparable device with Esim support.

    • abofh 9 hours ago
      I can't speak to anyone else, but I have a phone about a year too old for e-sims to have been commonplace, but I still need to travel, and services like airalo (global sims to go) are basically e-sim only -- so my secondary sim slot is a reprogrammable eSIM.
    • akvadrako 2 hours ago
      Because you can buy cheap short term data plans in most countries online. Getting a physical prepaid SIM is often a pain, especially in places like the US.
    • barbafant 9 hours ago
      quote from TFA "Since I want to use the SIM with the integrated WWAN modem of a laptop running Linux, I was keen to see if I could get this all to work using Linux and Free software."
    • marcosdumay 9 hours ago
      Well, one nice thing is that a device like this allows you to use the services that are trying to lock you with an eSIM in the same way that you use a normal consumer friendly SIM.
    • fer 9 hours ago
      Simply there are more eSIM providers than traditional SIM ones, so there's more competition and lower prices. That alone is enough.
    • pjmlp 9 hours ago
      Yep, it isn't as if there aren't cheap pre-paid throway SIM available as well.
    • dangus 9 hours ago
      Let’s say you land in a new country that your primary provider won’t roam to for free or at all, there’s no need to visit the airport shop that sells SIM cards with limited options and try to buy and set up something which is often in a different language.

      You can buy your eSIM service at the best possible price ahead of time online and have it ready to go when you land, and you don’t have to upgrade your not-that-old phone to do so.

  • everdrive 7 hours ago
    Does anyone have any resources which explain why eSIMs tunnel your network traffic to the provider? My mental model for old fashioned physical SIMs is that they would roam on the network you're visiting. ie, a Chinese physical SIM on a US network would show up from the US network, and would otherwise be normal except that the phone and network traffic would be very expensive. My understanding of eSIMs is that they act more like a VPN; your network (and phone?) traffic is tunneled back to the home network.
    • daveoc64 6 hours ago
      It's not really anything to do with eSIM. If you used a physical SIM from the same carrier with the same settings, you'd have the same experience.

      When connecting via a cellular data network, all data will be routed via your carrier's Access Point Name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Point_Name).

      Most carriers only have servers in their home region capable of handling the traffic. It is possible to have regional servers for this, but most carriers don't bother with the expense. Roaming data is usually expensive or restricted in usage - so there's traditionally been very little demand for higher speed connectivity.

      Travel eSIMs are usually just a regular SIM with a very limited plan from a carrier that has favourable roaming deals.

      • everdrive 4 hours ago
        Thanks for this explanation -- I guess I really had things wrong.
    • lxgr 7 hours ago
      > My mental model for old fashioned physical SIMs is that they would roam on the network you're visiting.

      No, that's never really been the case. It's technically possible (and called "local breakout"), but for various reasons I also don't fully understand, it's usually not done that way.

      One is legal liability for user actions; another is accessibility of services at home, such as banking apps, that are probably more comfortable with a familiar IP.

    • jenny91 5 hours ago
      I think this is a peculiarity of the short-term travel eSIM providers (like Airalo). If I recall correctly, when I went to Bermuda, the Airalo eSIM would route the traffic through Isle of Man. They have some of the most odd agreements with random telecoms to get coverage and cheap rates.

      Partly I think it's skirting around local regulations (e.g. if a country required SIMs to be registered with the owner's information, but you provision the SIM from a nearby country's telco and route traffic through there maybe you can get around it).

      But as far as I understand this has nothing to do with eSIMs and a lot to do with Airalo trying to cover every corner of the world for cheap.

    • smoovb 2 hours ago
      Routing data back to the home network is how it can get counted and charged for.

      The host roaming network is just selling in bulk, but does not own the customer.

    • SSLy 6 hours ago
      That's not ordered by the SIM but by the packet-core network policies set by both parties.
  • josephcsible 3 hours ago
    Previously, https://www.androidauthority.com/esim-adapter-android-phone-... said "While there are other eSIM adapters, the JMP adapter is the only one that doesn’t use a proprietary, closed source app." Is that still true, or is this one now a second FOSS option?
    • singpolyma3 2 hours ago
      I have not been able to find the source for the 9esim app, but it is derived from the code for the JMP app so they are pretty similar I think.
  • wkat4242 8 hours ago
    Hmm that's kinda nice. I don't like eSIMs because the provider often imposes arbitrary constraints. Either needing their data-stealing app, only allowing so many changes per month, only allowing 'certified' handsets, having 2FA bullshit etc.

    I just want to swap my number into different phones like I can with a physical card, without anyone else's involvement or approval.

    If I could just grab an esim and download it onto a physical card that would be great.

    • lxgr 6 hours ago
      What country is this, if you mind sharing? I've never encountered any of these problems. I've received almost all my eSIMs as a QR code, and the ones that did offer app-based installation (which is convenient if it works, but ultimately not more than that) have a QR code for fallback.

      > only allowing so many changes per month

      That I have actually encountered. I've seen one (fortunately only when traveling) that actually charges a "SIM fee" for each new eSIM profile installed, and they don't allow reinstalls of my initial one...

      Charging for a new eSIM is dubious even if a profile is reinstallable, but it's less of an issue for me, as I'd only have to do that if I lose a phone, or it fails to a point where I can no longer remove the installed eSIMs so that I can redownload them on another one.

      • sureIy 4 hours ago
        Happens with Thai eSIM as well.

        They have great roaming deals so I like having its eSIM always installed, but if I change iPhone I have to visit a store Thailand. Fantastic. I ended up switching it for a physical SIM card.

        • smoovb 2 hours ago
          If the eSIM is registered, you can also reissue a Thai eSIM online.
      • wkat4242 5 hours ago
        This was in Holland, one of the MVNOs. They had a crappy app and it would generate a different QR code every time (so they were not reusable).

        And a lot of operators have restrictions on phones. Imported phones are often blocked (and also not given access to VoLTE).

        For me it is a big deal if it charges "sim fees". I do swap my sims very regularly. For testing, or to put one in my tablet when I travel. I just want to be fully free to do as I please.

        But luckily I only use prepay these days and none of the carriers here in Europe that do prepay offer eSIM anyway.

        • akvadrako 2 hours ago
          Most eSIMs are not reusable; that's just standard, not a weird restriction.
          • lxgr 1 hour ago
            I’ve used many that are reusable, so I’ll continue considering it a common but weird restriction.
            • ddghhhhdaf 1 hour ago
              Which operators? From your other comments I would think Vodafone (CallYa?) Germany - any others?

              (I haven’t seen any other that ships reusable QR codes yet.)

    • gruez 8 hours ago
      >Either needing their data-stealing app

      that's only needed on non-rooted Android, due to security restrictions imposed by android. OP even mentions using an open source tool (lpac) with his esim adapter.

    • herbst 8 hours ago
      I have a 5ber.esim that appears to be exactly that.
      • wkat4242 5 hours ago
        Thanks! I'll have a look at that.

        Edit: Looks great but it's US only. But I think the one in the article spoke about a similar solution.

        • herbst 4 hours ago
          I am in Europe myself
          • wkat4242 3 hours ago
            Oh did you order it somewhere? I only saw US options on their site.
    • bongodongobob 3 hours ago
      I've never heard of any of these things (~2k mobile devices at work). I've had a hand in writing some policies for our company for our mobile devices and with Verizon, ATT, and T-Mobile, 0 issues with esims.
  • PopAlongKid 9 hours ago
    I wish I knew if this would have helped me on a recent trip out of the U.S. In preparation, I upgraded my older, low-end smartphone to one with a more recent version of Android, NFC (for tap-to-pay), a headphone jack, and support for two physical SIMs.

    So when I arrived at my destination, I was able to purchase a 30-day SIM for a local phone number and data, but my primary SIM was useless outside of the U.S. so no access to my primary phone number (I ended up using WhatsApp a lot). My carrier (Boost Mobile) advertised an add-on for "Global Roaming", but despite non-trivial time spent reading and talking to them on the phone, I got merely a vague impression that only an eSIM would have allowed me to continue to use my primary number out of the country. Would this solution have worked for me?

    Meanwhile, I still have the (now deactivated) second SIM in my phone, hope that is not a security risk of some kind.

    • doix 9 hours ago
      I really don't see the connection between an eSIM and your SIM not working abroad here.

      All an eSIM does is replace a physical one with a "digital" one. You'd still be using your carrier in these places. For your sim to work, your carrier would need to have agreements in place with providers in the country you're in. And then they'd charge you an extortionate amount of money to making any calls or use any data.

      • gruez 8 hours ago
        He's probably talking about how on iPhones[1] and some Androids[2], you can do something called "wifi calling using cellular data" or "backup calling", which basically enables you to roam for "free" on your one SIM by using wifi-calling over the data connection of the second SIM. It only triggers if the first SIM doesn't have any reception, but there's workarounds for that, but in any case it's not as simple as installing an eSIM and getting free roaming.

        [1] https://cdsassets.apple.com/live/7WUAS350/images/ios/ios-18-...

        [2] https://lemmy.world/post/58708

    • goda90 9 hours ago
      Another factor for international travel is whether you phone has the right bands to get signal. My carrier claims to have international roaming, but I look up what bands my model phone has and what the country I'm going to uses and I pretty much would not get signal anyway.
      • lxgr 6 hours ago
        Are you sure? There's a pretty good overlap these days in globally supported bands on at least a baseline level.

        You might not be able to use a provider's extended/rural or dense urban canyon filler cells, but I haven't yet been to a place where I didn't get any roaming connectivity at all.

        In some countries (the US included), providers restrict the ability of devices not capable of e.g. VoIP to connect on certain bands (as there is no circuit switched fallback available there, and there's an FCC mandate that calls, in particular 911 calls, have to work wherever data works), but that's usually not applied to inbound roaming guests.

        • joecool1029 4 hours ago
          > Are you sure? There's a pretty good overlap these days in globally supported bands on at least a baseline level.

          Most Chinese imported phones have really poor band support in the US. Lucky to get band 2 and band 5 at best.

          > In some countries (the US included), providers restrict the ability of devices not capable of e.g. VoIP to connect on certain bands (as there is no circuit switched fallback available there, and there's an FCC mandate that calls, in particular 911 calls, have to work wherever data works), but that's usually not applied to inbound roaming guests.

          US all circuit switched data is basically gone except for a few rural carriers and maybe a few pockets of 2G left on T-Mobile (was shut down on my local towers in past few weeks). Unsure of the 911 IMS carrier profile support on models not intended for US market.

    • someplaceguy 9 hours ago
      Recently I tried to reinstall an eSIM on my Android phone while overseas but was told by my carrier that the eSIM can only be activated while connected to antennas located in the carrier's country, i.e. it can't be activated overseas, despite my plan supporting call roaming and both countries being in the EU.

      I don't know whether this is carrier-specific or the same for all carriers.

      • Doohickey-d 4 hours ago
        This worked for me, French carrier "Free", and install new eSIM while in Spain.

        But now I have doubts, especially outside the EU: if it doesn't work, that would loose one of the advantages that I'd sort of expected eSIM to have: if your phone gets lost / stolen while abroad, you could just get a new eSIM from your carrier immediately, and set it up on your replacement phone.

        In my case, my bank uses mandatory SMS 2FA for setting up their app on a new phone, thus making it impossible to make purchases with my card without having the being able to set up the app.

        So I'd be back to the oldschool method of having a fried back at home set up the new eSIM, receive the 2FA code...

      • arccy 7 hours ago
        I think almost all carriers require this. I've seen mentions that the Google Fi eSIM requires US towers to activate, but can be moved / reinstalled later without them (didn't test it though).
        • terinjokes 7 hours ago
          Just an end user, so don't quote me on this, but I think that requirement was largely a legacy Sprint requirement.

          I've purchased newer Pixel devices from my local shop and activated Google Fi just fine overseas. (with the caveat that I might not have all of T-Mobile's bands if I'm back in the US).

  • TheJoeMan 8 hours ago
    Is there any effort towards enabling increased privacy against tracking by "rotating" eSIMs amongst a group of individuals? The article mentions capacity for 50 profiles, what would be the legal and/or implementation effects of such a Local-Profile-Agent?
    • gruez 8 hours ago
      You can't transfer eSIMs between devices. iPhones support "transfers" but in reality it involves the carrier reissuing it. You'd have to transfer the physical device, which is going to be a pain.
      • maxloh 8 hours ago
        What prevents you from doing that? Is an activated eSIM linked to the device's MAC address, making it impossible to use with a different device?

        If that is the case, what would happen if we transferred the MAC address along with the eSIM? (assuming you have a jailbroken/rooted phone)

        • gruez 7 hours ago
          >Is an activated eSIM linked to the device's MAC address, making it impossible to use with a different device?

          After an esim is "activated" it's bound to the esim chip. By design, you can't copy it onto another esim chip or device. If you want to transfer devices, you need to ask your carrier to issue you another esim.

          • Gormo 7 hours ago
            What if you use a solution like the one described in the article, and physically swap the SIM card to another device?
            • lxgr 7 hours ago
              That should work, as "physical eSIMs" are usually not bound to the device they're in in any way. Your provider might restrict the set of allowable IMEIs conencting per SIM (profile), though.
      • lxgr 6 hours ago
        That's not quite true: Some eSIM profiles can be reinstalled, sometimes only on the same device, sometimes only on a limited number of devices or a limited number of times, but sometimes they're really as versatile as the physical SIMs they're replacing.

        It's ultimately up to the provider which model they choose, but I really like the ones that allow both reuse of an existing profile and make it easy and free to provision a new one if required (e.g. due to a lost or broken device).

      • miohtama 8 hours ago
        AFAIK Only the eSIM issuer can do this. I did it once, it involved the eSIM issuer support emailing me a new QR code.
  • SXX 3 hours ago
    Is there no chinese knock-off SIM yet that let you change IDs and efficiently backup eSIM keys? That one would be actually a cool product.
  • porphyra 5 hours ago
    I'm interested in solving the opposite problem: using physical SIMs with devices that only have eSIM. This is extremely important when going to mainland China as physical SIMs are required there.
    • Elucalidavah 5 hours ago
      Using an eSIM data on a physical sim is relatively straightforward; getting the keys from a physical SIM to use as an eSIM is relatively non-trivial, as "the card is designed to never divulge this key to the outside world".
  • TechDebtDevin 8 hours ago
    This seems like it might be useful for web scraping. Ive been having a munch easier time scraping/ not having to buy proxies since moving to strictly 5G modems. Something like this might help get past the two sim limit on both devices.
  • daft_pink 6 hours ago
    Hoping for the opposite option. Using physical sims for devices that only support esim?
    • dustypotato 6 hours ago
      Curious on what you think the advantage there is ? If you lose your phone , you don't lose your number if it's an eSIM
      • priyanmuthu 5 hours ago
        I would love to use the GoogleFi data only SIM on my iPad. But the Fi doesn't provide data only eSIM, and my iPad cannot have physical SIM slots.
  • pxh21 5 hours ago
    Is this a knockoff of https://esim.me/ ?
    • smoovb 2 hours ago
      Yes. But esim.me high prices, clunky kyc and other issues left plenty of room for competitors.
  • pishpash 3 hours ago
    Need the other way around, an eSIM emulator for a physical SIM card.
  • RicoElectrico 8 hours ago
    Transitioning to eSim-only could enslave us even further, as if Windows 11 secure boot shenanigans were not enough. Please raise this with your favorite digital freedom advocate. Let's be proactive on this one.
    • lxgr 6 hours ago
      Yeah, I really hate not having to physically juggle small smartcards whenever I want to use another network/provider (my phone has several eSIM profiles installed right now), being able to choose from dozens of providers competing on price and functionality, and not having to stand in line at the SIM store first thing after a long-haul flight too.

      eSIMs could have been an anti-consumer nightmare, but fortunately they were really done exactly right. I really sometimes find it hard to believe how lucky we got on that one; they could have easily been a carrier lock-in mechanism like ESN/MEID based provisioning was.

      > Let's be proactive on this one.

      Even if you had a point, you're years too late. iPhones are sold without a SIM slot in some countries already (and I love it).

      • SXX 3 hours ago
        You can't just take "important" esim out of your phone when travelling. If you lose your device or if it's stolen recovering eSIM from many countries is PITA.
        • lxgr 1 hour ago
          I can delete mine and then reinstall it on any device from the QR code if required. Not all providers allow that, unfortunately, but I wouldn’t use one that doesn’t allow instantly receiving a new QR code in some way.
      • sureIy 4 hours ago
        > eSIMs _could_ have been an anti-consumer nightmare

        Really? Because I can swap a SIM card between phones in 30 seconds whereas swapping eSIM lies between "hoping it works" and "not possible", passing by "you'll need a document" or "visit the store, if it's anywhere in your city/country"

        • lxgr 1 hour ago
          I can swap my eSIM between phones faster than I can remove my phone case.
    • sofixa 6 hours ago
      > Transitioning to eSim-only could enslave us even further, as if Windows 11 secure boot shenanigans were not enough

      How are eSIMs "enslaving" people? Or for that matter, Windows 11 secure boot? There's plenty to complain about in Windows 11 from a privacy perspective, but secure boot is your problem?

      • RicoElectrico 5 hours ago
        Even media created with MS's own USB imager didn't work with my DIY build. May be related to Asus' UEFI but there's no proper diagnostic facility to know. I said screw it, and used Rufus to bypass any MS nonsense at the same time.

        And how? The same way SIM locks did. EU made them illegal not without reason.

        • sofixa 5 hours ago
          > And how? The same way SIM locks did. EU made them illegal not without reason.

          SIM locks were for operators to lock phones they sell you only to their network. You can install any eSIM, including from random MVNOs all around the world.

  • aaron695 8 hours ago
    [dead]