My solution for sitting too long: every time I get up, I drink a glass of water. That ensures I have to get up again! It’s a self-reinforcing loop too.
What goes in must come out. :P If you drink a glass of water every time you pee, then you’re gonna need to pee again relatively soon. The belt just limits how much room you have in the tank.
True! A fairly well fitting, inelastic waist line will rapidly inform you of any overindulgence. The key is to then modify your eating and exercise habits until the situation is resolved, rather than exchanging your pants. :D
My company has forced RSIGuard software on us, with unchangeable break timing and annoying pop-ups that you cannot disable for presentations, etc.
It’s detestable and only done so The Company has a plausible defense against lawsuits while continuing to only supply only the crappiest Fischer-Price grade Dell peripherals that get thrown in the box for free.
I love this idea. I used break enforcing software for a long time, but got into a routine of just pressing the ‘snooze’ button in order to avoid the break if I was into something. I feel the text box idea might’ve helped avoid that.
Jacob is the best! So glad to see him on HN <3 My favorite line: "[I want to] thank my wife for pointing out to me that I sit still too much and for putting up with the horrible screeching noises from the Beeper for the past 8 years and counting.
I use a custom pomodoro timer. Instead of taking a break every 25 minutes, I do it hourly. During my break, I take off my glasses, walk around, stretch, handle small chores and tasks, etc.
Another random hack-habit with a very minor effect: standing up without using your arms, and your core instead. It's not a substitute for exercise, but it does loosen my core afterwards.
Am I the only one who does not understand how the script on the Mac side works? I don't use a Mac and I don't know how "macOS LaunchAgent" operates, so I may be missing some details. But the code presented in the post seems to only check about the state at the 20-minute mark after execution. If the script is fired at 00:00, I take a break at 00:15, return at 00:19, it will still buzz at 00:20.
I assume LaunchAgent restarts the script after it exits, so it is essentially a check that a person has locked the laptop at 20, 40, 60, 80, ... minutes after the initial start of the script, regardless of what other breaks take place.
I pretty much got out of programming because sitting for too long resulted in me having serious spine problems culminating in surgery. Not sitting long enough means I rarely get into the ‚zone’. I’m glad others have figured it out better
Standing desks can solve that problem. Some have built-in timers reminding you to switch between sitting and standing. After getting used to it, you start reacting automatically and it barely breaks your flow anymore.
After using a standing desk for months, I developed hip pain that I haven't recovered from 2 years later. Maybe just a coincidence, but I don't think our bodies like standing in one place any better than sitting - in fact it could be even worse. Motion is lotion.
you definitely don't want to stand the whole time at least - teachers and cashier's who go a whole shift standing have issues with joint pain and I think it's bad on the ankles?
Recent research from a West Virginia University epidemiologist is headlined as “New Research Reveals That Standing Desks Could Actually Be Harming Your Health.”
You can find a bullshit study "proving" pretty much anything. Makes great headlines but not so great science.
All this study proved is that you need to actually move, switching between standing and sitting is useful because it breaks the habit about staying in one static position for a long time. The bit about standing being harmful is especially contrived and basically says if you entirely switch from sitting to standing, but don't move from the standing position for many hours, and repeat this every day, that's harmful. Well no shit. You gotta alternate your position, and you have to balance sitting and standing with actual exercise too.
Did you try getting a good (=expensive) mesh chair? (Not an "ergonomic" chair; those suck.)
I have a HM Mira and it makes such a huge difference I'm actually a bit sceptical of the "sitting for too long is bad" thing - sitting in a average chair maybe.
This sounds like the kind of thing I would put a cheap z-wave plug on so I could turn it off remotely with Home Assistant, completely defeating its purpose.
I decided to buy a HARA-chair instead. It's certainly more expensive than the glasses with water but I believe this chair is also better for my butt than just the water and still sitting in a regular chair between the get-ups.
This is an inspiring article for the DIY enthusiast in me.
I’ve found a simplified approach that works for me. For anything that I do, I use a timer (on the Watch, Kitchen Timer, etc.), as I don't want to use my brain to track time.
While I'm at my desk, I have a physical hourglass, and I like it. The hourglass helps me with a Pomodoro-ish technique without that hard and loud stop alarms. It reminds me of the passage of the sands of time but gives me the freedom to break or push a tad more to finish the task at hand. I love having a few types of mechanical Kitchen Timers lying around.
Nice, I was already considering to get a pull-up bar, now I will think about adding a smart beeper to it... (with a camera detecting a face in the up position ??)
Definitely buy a pull up bar, it's one of the best purchases I've made. Pull ups and chin ups are fun exercises and they make your back feel REALLY good.
I have been thinking of something similar: I'd like a wearable that haptic taps me once every 10 or 15 minutes. Then I would check with myself if I am doing something that's actually interesting to me or just idling away.
I keep considering smart watches but if the goal is to prevent me from wasting time those could be counter-productive. Also I am sick of having products that require their specific charging dock.
If you're interested in a fairly simple, fairly programmable, and long-lasting option: https://www.espruino.com/Bangle.js2 it's the only watch that hasn't been a distraction or (too much of an[1]) annoyance for me.
You could probably build your own "start/stop a motion-sensitive reminder" app in a couple hours, though fine tuning it will likely take some time.
I regularly get a full week of battery out of it, and it uses a standard magnetic watch charger. The vibration motor is a bit weak though, and personally I rapidly grow to not notice frequent haptics so I can't use it for this kind of thing. But apparently watch-vibrations work for many.
[1]: it certainly has some annoying quirks and minor frictions, but they irk me far less than the quirks/etc in other watches I've tried. and I am MORE than willing to put up with it for the battery life and daylight-readable screen - I'm downright happy with it, and have returned every other watch I've tried in the past couple years.
The only thing that was effective for my RSI — and was really effective — is an app that forces me to stop typing for 15 seconds every 4 minutes. Super irritating but it works. AntiRSI on a Mac, Workrave on Windows and Linux, are examples of ones I’ve used. Been doing this for 20-odd years at this point.
Switching to Vim cured my RSI completely. I was thinking that coding might no longer be my occupation, but thanks to Vim I’m still working 10+ years later!
Maybe your keyboard was a contributing factor? I had wrist pain typing in vim on a "regular" (Keychron C1) Keyboard. The wrist pain is gone since i use a split keyboard (Ergodox EZ) which allows me to rotate both halves of the keyboard in order to match the "incoming angle" of my forearm which removes the need to constantly bend my wrists outwards.
It was indeed, and I went through an incredible range of bizarre alternative keyboards (vertical keyboards, DataHands, etc), but the simple fix ended up being the timer apps mentioned, along with a very standard MS ergonomic keyboard.
I bought a treadmill + standup desk 2.5 years ago, and to this day, it remains the best investment I've made to avoid sitting for most of the day.
Before I started using the treadmill desk, I averaged around 2.5-3k steps per day. On days when I exercised, it could go up to 8-10k steps, although I wasn't exercising regularly at that time. Now, 2.5 years later, I consistently reach 10k-12k steps on a bad day (about 2 hours of walking) and can go up to 18-24k steps on a good day (3-4 hours). Occasionally, I hit 30k steps, but that's quite rare, to be honest.
I was hesitant about the idea, but a friend who got one himself and shared his experience encouraged me to give it a try.
Pros:
- Feels more natural than just standing on the desk (after 20 min I get tired of standing still, whereas I can walk 2h without even realizing)
- I can work comfortably with the computer when typing, using the mouse (programming, writing... and even playing games), at speeds up to ~4.5km/h (~2.8 miles per hour). Beyond that the thoughts don't flow in the same way. Below this threshold I don't notice much difference in my work. I initially found 3 km/h (~1.8 mph) fast enough, but over time, 4 km/h (~2.5 mph) has become my sweet spot.
- You can enter a flow state just as easily as when seated (or at least that's my feeling)
Cons:
- Space: The treadmill takes up room, so I keep it next to my desk when not in use for convenience. Setting up the treadmill desk takes around 1 minute.
- Meetings: It felt awkward at first. Initially, I avoided attending meetings while walking, but I gradually started participating in 1:1s and eventually team meetings. Nowadays, I’m comfortable walking during most meetings, although I avoid it during large group or company-wide calls. My webcam is positioned to show only my shoulders and face, minimizing visible movement and reducing distractions for others during calls (probably the others won't care anyway).
- Limited Upper Body Movement: The upper body remains relatively still since my hands are usually on the keyboard or mouse. This limits overall activity compared to walking outside. However, when reading, my arms and hands move off the desk, mimicking the motion of walking, so it really depends.
- Noise: I live in a flat, and while the treadmill isn't very noisy, it could be bothersome if people are sleeping (whether in the next room or in the floor below). I avoid using it early in the morning or late in the evening.
My treadmill automatically beeps after 2 hours and shuts off for 30 minutes. It does force me to take a break (or even take a shower depending on the speed I was walking). After the break, I switch to a seated position. I typically have one walking session in the morning, and on some days, another in the afternoon. When it beeps and I'm in the zone I just move it aside and continue seated (sometimes I just continue standing still for some minutes), so it does not get in the way if you are focused.
Overall I think it is an improvement over staying still for most of the day (seated or standing), and also an improvement over forcing regular/spaced interruptions (I honestly tried several times, but it breaks my concentration and prevents me from going into the zone). Standing desk + treadmill: Totally worth the investment.
One more thing I forgot to mention on the "Con" side is the noise.
Treadmills aren't completely silent; there's always some level of sound from the engine. Over time, you tend to get used to it. Personally, I wear regular headphones to listen to music, which helps mask the noise.
Seconding the treadmill desk (if one's situation allows). My previous job had one for communal use, and once I started working remotely, I picked up the same model (LifeSpan TR1200-DT5) on Craigslist.
I get in between 2 and 10 miles depending on the day, and have a little drafting chair that's intentionally pretty mediocre to encourage walking instead.
I find the idea of intentionally interrupting myself every 20 minutes kinda insane, seems like it would preclude getting "deep" work done.
I've been considering getting something like that at home, because I've found I can walk at a steady pace outside for ages, and it would probably help me get a little bit of exercise as well, but I also don't have a standing desk and I feel bad about making noise when it's late since my flat has very thin walls :/
If you choose a manual or motorized standing desk with adjustable height (like the one I use), you can easily move the treadmill to the side when you're not walking and switch to working while seated.
I mean, you need to have the space to put the treadmill on the side, but other than that you'll have the flexibility to choose between walking and sitting as needed.
That might be an option tbh, I have been needing another desk for non-computer work, so I could just swap them over. Do you have any recommendations for a desk? Is this HN Comment sponsored by flexispot? :P
WalkingPad R1 Pro. I thought the ability to run would be a plus, but honestly, I've only used it for running twice (I'd rather run outdoors than stare at a wall, tv or computer).
KingSmith walking pads can be folded and take less space. R1 can also be stored vertically, but I always keep it horizontally for convenience.
If I had to buy one treadmill again, I would chose either a regular model or a cheaper foldable model. I would probably lean towards a smaller and cheaper regular model since I believe 40cm x 80cm (16in x 32in) is enough to walk and is not that big.
Neat!
I’ve thought of trying something similar, but fear I might just unplug it for those sessions where I feel really locked in and don’t want to get up.
>... because it is situated away from my desk I must get up to silence it.
Yeah, that's probably what I need too. An elegant self-hack.
I think I'll try it with a kitchen timer instead, but I can certainly appreciate the ability to fine-tune it for self-annoyance only at the correct times.
> It works so well that I wear sweats.
Hahahaha yep sometimes during the holiday season.
It’s detestable and only done so The Company has a plausible defense against lawsuits while continuing to only supply only the crappiest Fischer-Price grade Dell peripherals that get thrown in the box for free.
https://www.cority.com/home-ergo/
Of course, the watch comes with a giant bundle of other features that may or may not be desired. And building it yourself is so much cooler.
It is funny to read later what you did.(as oppose to what you wanted to get done and what you should have)
Every time they went to have a cigarette I would go out with them
I do not think that would work these days, in my culture.
At an open seating hanger type office, I never able focus deep enough that sitting too long become a problem. Not that great for productivity but.
I assume LaunchAgent restarts the script after it exits, so it is essentially a check that a person has locked the laptop at 20, 40, 60, 80, ... minutes after the initial start of the script, regardless of what other breaks take place.
For me a standing desk decreases "friction" to move around. I find myself bouncing from foot to foot, pacing back and forth, etc.
A chair OTOH makes it too easy to be motionless for longer period of time.
That being said, an electric standing desk makes it easy to swap between sitting / standing.
https://scitechdaily.com/new-research-reveals-that-standing-...
All this study proved is that you need to actually move, switching between standing and sitting is useful because it breaks the habit about staying in one static position for a long time. The bit about standing being harmful is especially contrived and basically says if you entirely switch from sitting to standing, but don't move from the standing position for many hours, and repeat this every day, that's harmful. Well no shit. You gotta alternate your position, and you have to balance sitting and standing with actual exercise too.
I have a HM Mira and it makes such a huge difference I'm actually a bit sceptical of the "sitting for too long is bad" thing - sitting in a average chair maybe.
Modern vacuum containers make cold and hot beverages almost constantly available which makes me get up quite frequently.
I’ve found a simplified approach that works for me. For anything that I do, I use a timer (on the Watch, Kitchen Timer, etc.), as I don't want to use my brain to track time.
While I'm at my desk, I have a physical hourglass, and I like it. The hourglass helps me with a Pomodoro-ish technique without that hard and loud stop alarms. It reminds me of the passage of the sands of time but gives me the freedom to break or push a tad more to finish the task at hand. I love having a few types of mechanical Kitchen Timers lying around.
https://brajeshwar.com/2023/timer/
https://clocky.com/
I have been thinking of something similar: I'd like a wearable that haptic taps me once every 10 or 15 minutes. Then I would check with myself if I am doing something that's actually interesting to me or just idling away.
I keep considering smart watches but if the goal is to prevent me from wasting time those could be counter-productive. Also I am sick of having products that require their specific charging dock.
You could probably build your own "start/stop a motion-sensitive reminder" app in a couple hours, though fine tuning it will likely take some time.
I regularly get a full week of battery out of it, and it uses a standard magnetic watch charger. The vibration motor is a bit weak though, and personally I rapidly grow to not notice frequent haptics so I can't use it for this kind of thing. But apparently watch-vibrations work for many.
[1]: it certainly has some annoying quirks and minor frictions, but they irk me far less than the quirks/etc in other watches I've tried. and I am MORE than willing to put up with it for the battery life and daylight-readable screen - I'm downright happy with it, and have returned every other watch I've tried in the past couple years.
I don’t think I got any faster at typing but my wrist pain went away and hasn’t really come back in the 16 years since.
I wish I had this problem. Lately it is the opposite. I break focus every 20-30 minutes to go get a beverage, take a pee, tend to the dog, etc.
Time spent on it varies between 2h (very lazy week) and 10h (very active week).
I feel like this helped me prevent a lot of the symptoms described both in the writeup and comments.
Before I started using the treadmill desk, I averaged around 2.5-3k steps per day. On days when I exercised, it could go up to 8-10k steps, although I wasn't exercising regularly at that time. Now, 2.5 years later, I consistently reach 10k-12k steps on a bad day (about 2 hours of walking) and can go up to 18-24k steps on a good day (3-4 hours). Occasionally, I hit 30k steps, but that's quite rare, to be honest.
I was hesitant about the idea, but a friend who got one himself and shared his experience encouraged me to give it a try.
Pros:
- Feels more natural than just standing on the desk (after 20 min I get tired of standing still, whereas I can walk 2h without even realizing)
- I can work comfortably with the computer when typing, using the mouse (programming, writing... and even playing games), at speeds up to ~4.5km/h (~2.8 miles per hour). Beyond that the thoughts don't flow in the same way. Below this threshold I don't notice much difference in my work. I initially found 3 km/h (~1.8 mph) fast enough, but over time, 4 km/h (~2.5 mph) has become my sweet spot.
- You can enter a flow state just as easily as when seated (or at least that's my feeling)
Cons:
- Space: The treadmill takes up room, so I keep it next to my desk when not in use for convenience. Setting up the treadmill desk takes around 1 minute.
- Meetings: It felt awkward at first. Initially, I avoided attending meetings while walking, but I gradually started participating in 1:1s and eventually team meetings. Nowadays, I’m comfortable walking during most meetings, although I avoid it during large group or company-wide calls. My webcam is positioned to show only my shoulders and face, minimizing visible movement and reducing distractions for others during calls (probably the others won't care anyway).
- Limited Upper Body Movement: The upper body remains relatively still since my hands are usually on the keyboard or mouse. This limits overall activity compared to walking outside. However, when reading, my arms and hands move off the desk, mimicking the motion of walking, so it really depends.
- Noise: I live in a flat, and while the treadmill isn't very noisy, it could be bothersome if people are sleeping (whether in the next room or in the floor below). I avoid using it early in the morning or late in the evening.
My treadmill automatically beeps after 2 hours and shuts off for 30 minutes. It does force me to take a break (or even take a shower depending on the speed I was walking). After the break, I switch to a seated position. I typically have one walking session in the morning, and on some days, another in the afternoon. When it beeps and I'm in the zone I just move it aside and continue seated (sometimes I just continue standing still for some minutes), so it does not get in the way if you are focused.
Overall I think it is an improvement over staying still for most of the day (seated or standing), and also an improvement over forcing regular/spaced interruptions (I honestly tried several times, but it breaks my concentration and prevents me from going into the zone). Standing desk + treadmill: Totally worth the investment.
Treadmills aren't completely silent; there's always some level of sound from the engine. Over time, you tend to get used to it. Personally, I wear regular headphones to listen to music, which helps mask the noise.
I get in between 2 and 10 miles depending on the day, and have a little drafting chair that's intentionally pretty mediocre to encourage walking instead.
I find the idea of intentionally interrupting myself every 20 minutes kinda insane, seems like it would preclude getting "deep" work done.
I mean, you need to have the space to put the treadmill on the side, but other than that you'll have the flexibility to choose between walking and sitting as needed.
I have an "old" ikea model that is not sold anymore, but the equivalent would be something like this one: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/rodulf-desk-sit-stand-gray-whit...
You can also buy the legs and use your own table (slightly cheaper) https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/rodulf-underframe-sit-stand-f-t...
Again, the advantage is the ability to adjust the height, so you can work either seated, standing or walking if you also have a treadmill.
KingSmith walking pads can be folded and take less space. R1 can also be stored vertically, but I always keep it horizontally for convenience.
If I had to buy one treadmill again, I would chose either a regular model or a cheaper foldable model. I would probably lean towards a smaller and cheaper regular model since I believe 40cm x 80cm (16in x 32in) is enough to walk and is not that big.
Yeah, that's probably what I need too. An elegant self-hack.
I think I'll try it with a kitchen timer instead, but I can certainly appreciate the ability to fine-tune it for self-annoyance only at the correct times.